Which Code?

[stalepretzel59]

Hey, I have a question about which language I should learn. I know some a fair amount of HTML (XHTML) and I'm OK with Javascript. I know that I need a Server Side language. I am limmited though:

I have a Windows XP home eddition, which Ive been told means 'no ASP for me'

I have a 50 Kilabytes per second dailup connection

My parents wont let me stay on for more that 30 min, so big files are basically a no.

Chances are, if we get a new computer, it will be an XP home eddition, cause my padres don't care about programming.

So, I would like to know what I should try to pursue. If there's nothing, what operating system should I try to get?

THANK YOU FOR YOU HELP (IF YOU END UP HELPING ME).

[JPnyc]

You can code ASP on any OS. It runs on a server, not on your local pc, so it doesn't much matter what OS you write it on.

[Fang]

You'll need to download about 100MB of server software. Get a friend with cable to download it for you.

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

If you want to go for PHP (http://php.net) you'll need to download at least 2,6 + 7,4 = 10 MB (php + apache http server)

Those are for you to install to run scripts locally, if you have a remote server you won't need to download anything

[felgall]

When developing server side code it works best if you have a setup on your computer that allows you to test before uploading to your site.

[stalepretzel59]

Sorry, Im a little bit stupid...
I think I need some step by step kind of explanation.
As far as I know I have nothing. What //exactly// should I do to be able to do a server coding type thing. Also, which is the best code to have?

[pcthug]

I would personally use PHP (http://www.php.net/). It is the 4th most popular programming language (http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm) with an increasing (http://www.php.net/usage.php) audience. It is open source (http://www.opensource.org/) and therefore free to work with. It is a simple language to learn (especially if you're comfortable with the JavaScript, C#/C++ syntax), and has easy SQL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL) intergration.

If you don't feel comfortable with installing/setting up PHP + Apache + /etc. (MySQL, phpMyAdmin, etc.), you may be interested in downloading the ever-popular XAMPP (http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html).

Here are the dial-up friendly packages:
EXE (7-zip) (http://www.apachefriends.org/download.php?xampp-win32-1.5.1.exe) will give you the full featured, 26 MB Selfextracting 7-ZIP (http://www.7-zip.org/) archive
EXE (7-zip) (http://www.apachefriends.org/download.php?xampplite-win32-1.5.1.exe) will give you the lite-version, 13 MB Selfextracting 7-ZIP (http://www.7-zip.org/) archive
full download page... (http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html)

If you run into any problems be sure to see the xampp download page (http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html). Once you have it all up and running, you may be interested in:

Tutorials
PHP: A simple tutorial (http://www.php.net/tut.php)
Zend Technologies, 'Absolute Beginners' PHP Tutorial (http://www.zend.com/php/beginners/)
W3Schools PHP Tutotrials (http://www.w3schools.com/php/default.asp)

And
The PHP Manual (http://php.net/docs.php)
MySQL Documentation (http://dev.mysql.com/doc/)

And don't forget you can always ask in the forum (http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

[stalepretzel59]

If you don't feel comfortable with installing/setting up PHP + Apache + /etc. (MySQL, phpMyAdmin, etc.), you may be interested in downloading the ever-popular XAMPP.

Here are the dial-up friendly packages:
EXE (7-zip) will give you the full featured, 26 MB Selfextracting 7-ZIP archive
EXE (7-zip) will give you the lite-version, 13 MB Selfextracting 7-ZIP archive
full download page...
Why wouldn't I feel comfortable downloading PHP + Apache... Do you mean because I have a slow connection or is there some thing to be AFRAID of? :eek: And what's the difference between PHP+Apache+MySQL... and The full and the lite versions? :D I LIKE TO BE AN INFORMED BUYER! :D

[scottyrob]

PHP is the programming language, Apache is the server software and MySQL is basically a database! They all work together perfectly... (but in my case they dont, because i cant write PHP that works very well lol).. In my opinion? Learn PHP!

[David Harrison]

Hey, I have a question about which language I should learn. I know some a fair amount of HTML (XHTML) and I'm OK with Javascript.Perhaps the next one should be CSS...

[pcthug]

Why wouldn't I feel comfortable downloading PHP + Apache...
It's the installation and intergration part that many find uncomfortable to do. Yes, downloading and installing PHP, Apache, etc. standalone does allow more room for customisation - it also allows more room for compatibility issues and installation/intergration problems. Xampp offers a simple, streamline one-click installation, no problems! :)

And what's the difference between PHP+Apache+MySQL... and The full and the lite versions? :D I LIKE TO BE AN INFORMED BUYER! :D
PHP The PHP Hypertext Preprocessor is a programming language that allows web developers to create dynamic content that interacts with databases. PHP is basically used for developing web based software applications.
MySQLMySQL (pronounced "my ess cue el") is an open source relational database management system (RDBMS) that uses Structured Query Language (SQL), the most popular language for adding, accessing, and processing data in a database. Because it is open source, anyone can download MySQL and tailor it to their needs in accordance with the general public license. MySQL is noted mainly for its speed, reliability, and flexibility.
ApacheApache is an open-source (source code is freely available and can be shared) HTTP Web server software. It is currently the most popular web server on the Net. It is usually run on Unix operating system versions like Linux or BSD, but it can also be run on Windows. It is a full-featured server with many powerful add-ons freely available.

PHP + Apache + MySQL Would be three seperate, standalone pieces of software.

Full Featured xampp Offers all the following: Apache HTTPD 2.2.0, MySQL 5.0.18, PHP 5.1.1 + 4.4.1 pl1 + PEAR + Switch, MiniPerl 5.8.7, mod_ssl 2.0.55, Openssl 0.9.8a, PHPMyAdmin 2.7.0 pl1, XAMPP Control Panel 2.1, eAccelerator 0.9.4, Webalizer 2.01-10, Mercury Mail Transport System für Win32 und NetWare Systems v4.01a, FileZilla FTP Server 0.9.10a, SQLite 2.8.15, ADODB 4.65, Zend Optimizer 2.5.10a, XAMPP Security. For Windows 98, 2000, XP.
and is available free for download from:
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html

Lite xampp is a very reduced version of XAMPP with Apache 2.2.0 + PHP 5.1.1 (without PEAR) + MySQL 4.1.18 + PHPMyAdmin 2.7.0-pl1 + Openssl 0.9.8 + SQLite 2.8.15 + eAccelerator 0.9.4.
and is also available free for download from:
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html

If you can afford the larger filesize, I personally would go with the Full-Featured Xampp install, but nevertheless the Lite ver. will do the Job to.

[stalepretzel59]

Almost there! Does the Full featured XAMPP run on Windows XP Home Edition? OR just professional :mad: ? And, is it free? :o

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

Almost there! Does the Full featured XAMPP run on Windows XP Home Edition? OR just professional :mad: ? And, is it free? :o
both, and yes it's free

[pcthug]

and is available free for download from:
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

Here's something that might interest you OP: http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article10-002 (Differences between Win XP Home and Pro)

[PeOfEo]

I would say just get a host that supports any one of the languages and do not worry about downloading tons of stuff. Then just develop with that language and upload to the server and run it off that. Make sure they offer FTP since you will be uploading frequently. Local testing isn't always an option and doesn't always catch all of the bugs as the end server will most likely be configured far differently from your home machine, it is a nice luxury but not a neccessity.

[Sunny G]

Those are for you to install to run scripts locally
You can run PHP locally? How?

[NogDog]

You can run PHP locally? How?
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

You can run PHP locally? How?

You have to install PHP and a web server (e.g.: Apache)
XAMPP does it and more for you.

Then you can access your "root" folder through a browser (type http://localhost ) place your scripts in this folder (or sub-folders) and they will be parsed.

Read Noggy Dog's FAQ (i think there is one Q-A about it)

[stalepretzel59]

Yay! after a g r u e l i n g (and punnishment inducing) 1 hr 45 min online, I have downloaded the full XAMPP! But what do I do now?!?! I learned a bit about the syntax, but I don't even know what to do to get Hello World to appear onscreen! HELP! AYUDAME! SOS. ... - - - ... :)

[NogDog]

http://www.zend.com/php/beginners/index.php

[Sunny G]

http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html
So I just download that and I can run php on my computer? If so, which version of php is it?

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

XAMPP 1.5.1 for windows (http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html#641)
contains:

Apache HTTPD 2.2.0, MySQL 5.0.18, PHP 5.1.1 + 4.4.1 pl1 + PEAR + Switch, MiniPerl 5.8.7, mod_ssl 2.0.55, Openssl 0.9.8a, PHPMyAdmin 2.7.0 pl1, XAMPP Control Panel 2.1, eAccelerator 0.9.4, Webalizer 2.01-10, Mercury Mail Transport System für Win32 und NetWare Systems v4.01a, FileZilla FTP Server 0.9.10a, SQLite 2.8.15, ADODB 4.65, Zend Optimizer 2.5.10a

[Sunny G]

Is there any way I can get just the php?

==looks at the link==

Oh duh:rolleyes: The lite version

[David Harrison]

http://www.php.net/downloads.php

[Sunny G]

the windows binaries?

=edit=

so say if I downloaded it, i just run the exe and that's it?
I do the http://localhost/wherever and that's it?

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

no you have to install apache (web server)

[David Harrison]

Apache isn't the only webserver though, Light TPD is another (http://www.lighttpd.net/).

[welsh]

php is like a plugin for apache (though its not limited to apache). like the webdeveloper plugin for firefox. it wont run without the main program.

[David Harrison]

It's not just a plugin for Apache, it wouldn't make sense to limit the project for use with only one server.PHP 5.1.2 installer [2,585Kb] - 12 Jan 2006
(CGI only, packaged as Windows installer to install and configure PHP, and automatically configure IIS, PWS and Xitami, with manual configuration for other servers. N.B. no external extensions included)

[NogDog]

You need a webserver along with PHP in order to process php web pages. (You can install PHP in CLI mode to just run stand-alone scripts from the command line, but this is seldomly how it is used.) XAMPP makes it very simple to install both PHP and Apache webserver (along with other goodies you might want to use at some point), as opposed to downloading each piece separately, installing it, editing the config files to get them to work together, etc.

[David Harrison]

WAMP server (http://www.wampserver.com/en/) is another such project, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles (which could also be classified as bloat if you don't need them) that XAMPP has, just Apache, MySQL and PHP5.

[welsh]

(though its not limited to apache)
i know

[Sunny G]

You need a webserver along with PHP in order to process php web pages.
So you're saying I need another computer to run these?

[pcthug]

Provided your computer meets the minimum system requirements (99% likley it will) you can run it on your current computer. When he says webserver he is referring to Apache (or equivalent), which also comes with the Xampp package.

[NogDog]

Yep. I have XAMPP installed on my rather old notebook PC (500MHz Pentium III with 256MB RAM) running Apache web server, PHP, and MySQL; and it runs just fine. Sure, it would be grossly underpowered for running an actual web site with a few hundred concurrent users hitting it from the web; but for local testing purposes it's fine.

[Sunny G]

So if I installed that XAMPP thing, my computer would still run as it normally would, it would just have webserver functions?

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

So if I installed that XAMPP thing, my computer would still run as it normally would, it would just have webserver functions?
it would still run the same ;)

[stalepretzel59]

Hey g2g quick so I'll be brief... I downloaded the XAMPP and I learned a little about PHP, but I can't get Hello World to work... Could someone give me a tep by step to getting it to work? I turn on the XAMPP stuff and try to do <?php echo "Hello World" ?> inside of an HTML document, but It wont work. Why?

[David Harrison]

Save the file as .php not .html.

Then you have to put it somewhere in the root folder and access it by typing something like this into the address bar:
http://localhost/filename.php

[Sunny G]

The root folder? So you put the files are like this?
C:\localhost\*files and other folders*

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

The root folder? So you put the files are like this?
C:\localhost\*files and other folders*
no, the root folder from your webserver
for XAMPP it usually would be
C:\Programs\XAMPP\htdocs

[David Harrison]

No, localhost isn't a folder. When I said the root folder I was refering to what the webserver considers to be the root folder.

For example, WAMP considers the root folder to be C:\wamp\www unless you specify otherwise. If you had a file called index.php in there, it would be referred to as http://localhost/index.php in a browsers address bar.

I don't know where the root folder for XAMPP is because I haven't installed that, but the chances are it'll tell you during the installation process. The location should also be present in the Apache config file which is called httpd.conf.

[Sunny G]

OK, so I downloaded the lite version, and I'm going home to install it.
Is there anything else I should know?

Oh, I ran the idea of installing it by my parents and they want to know why PHP and apache is free.

[pcthug]

OK, so I downloaded the lite version, and I'm going home to install it.
Is there anything else I should know?The xampp readme file should provide you with more then enough help & information.

Oh, I ran the idea of installing it by my parents and they want to know why PHP and apache is free.Because they are both open-source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software)

[stalepretzel59]

OK, that's not working. HEre's and example of my computer: C:/Documents and Settings/J and Dad and Mom/My Documents/name.html... I saved the XAMPP folder in My documents. so shouldn't I be able to make a file: C:/Documents and Settings/J and Dad and Mom/My Documents/XAMPP/htdocs/name.php ?
Please Help

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

what do you mean by "You saved the XAMPP folder in My documents" ?

Simply install it to
C:\Programs\XAMPP

put your PHP files in C:\Programs\XAMPP\htdocs
get rid of index.htm (or .html) and index.php in the htdocs folder

go in your browser, type http://localhost (this will list the htdocs (webservers root folder) content), run the file by clicking on it in that listing

[Sunny G]

It's been a while... I installed the xmapp thing, and it works great!
I just want to know... Is it possible to change where the local host is?

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

yes, in the httpd.conf file (in the XAMPP>apache folder)
restart your server afterwards

[Sunny G]

Ah, yes of course... It wasn't right there, but I found it, made a few changes, and now I can use my own folder. Thanks!

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

;)

[stalepretzel59]

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHH! I originally save the XAMMP to my documents then I moved it to C:/Programs, but XAMMP still won't work! It would be nice if someone could just play around w/ my computer but my mom would freak if I gave remote access to some random dude. I doin't think she'd much like me giving remote access, either... I need some serious help.