Browser compatibility vs. compliant pages?

[Rifter72]

As I'm still learning this stuff, I have been seeing alot of conflicting views regarding designing preferences. Many people argue that you should design pages that work in almost all versions of every browser available, while just as many insist that all pages must adhere to strict standards/compliance guidelines. And apparently to get your pages to work in a variety of browsers you cannot follow the guidelines as closely as the "rules lawyers" insist.

I'm not taking a stance either way yet, as I said, I'm just learning all this myself. But is there a happy medium here? I mean, I can tend a garden enough to grow edible food but I wouldn't win for the biggest squash at the state fair. Do you know what I mean?

[Jona]

Well, if your pages are all standards compliant, they should work in all browsers. However, many things that we disagree on regard braille, non-visual and text browsers.

Jona

[Dark Dragon]

I hate squash..but that isn't the point ;)

For awhile I tried to use just HTML..no JavaScript, layers and such because of that same issue..however there are probably a very small amount of people who are still using IE 2 or Netscape 3 or whatever...so I don't have to worry as much as things like layers, Iframes and nested objects are being used more....but I found that even HTML language can differ from web program to another...so it is not just a browser issue either.

[toicontien]

I'm definitely one for standards compliance, within reason.

If you're building using HTML 4.01 Loose or Strict, it will work on almost any browser for the simple fact that you will be using a table-based layout with CSS used mainly for formatting text.

Over 99% of the web users out there have a version 4.0 or newer browser, rather a fourth generation or newer browser, of which most do a good job of supporting HTML and CSS1.

If you're designing with XHTML and CSS layouts, then the design will not show up correctly in most 4.0 browsers, and definitely won't for older browers. But 5.0 and newer browsers, though they may be quirky, do CSS layouts just fine.

The thing about 4.0 and older browsers, the advanced CSS design is hidden from them, but none of the content is.

For more info on how to do that, visit http://www.alistapart.com/

The happy medium is using CSS and XHTML to design your site, and not hiding any content from less capable browsers. It's not ideal, but it works.

[Charles]

If you follow the rules, HTML 4.01 Strict (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/ and the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/), then your page will work on every browser that there is. And you can use all of the JavaScript and images and bells and whistles that you want. You just have to be careful how you use them.

Web authors aren't resisting because they will end up with an inferior product, they are resisting because they are inferior web authors. They don't want to be bothered with the extra work of learning new ways and of thinking about how their page will work in different kinds of browsers. And it's a false bargain they've made. A site made according to the modern standards is actually easier to maintain.

[Vladdy]

After all, quality of a web site is determined by the quality of information it contains. However there are quite a few authors who substitute the absence of essence with pretty pictures and other irrelevant eye-candy.

Definition of working web site is not it's ability to show up the same on most browsers (which is imposible by default), but it's abililty to deliver the content regardless of what the user 's browsing tool is. It is not about "browser compatibility vs. compliant pages". Compliant pages ARE compatible with the widest selection of browsers .

A good web page does not have to show up the same, it adjusts to whatever is used to present it. Good design uses browser abilities to enchance presentation of the content that can be accessed and understood even if one just dumps the port 80 traffic in a text file.

[AdamGundry]

even if one just dumps the port 80 traffic in a text file.I thought I was the only person who did that. :D

I agree, designing to standards means pages are easier to maintain, cleaner (no nested tables), and work regardless of whether the user has Lynx, IE or anything else.

I'm grateful to Charles and many others for introducing the WCAG to me (and ramming them down my throat). I haven't quite got every nuance yet, but I'm working on it.

Adam

[khaki]

uh-oh...

this is the second thread today that thanks Charles for either:

a) Hammering the W3 into their head
or
b) Ramming it down their throats

yikes!
no wonder I don't take well to the W3...
I have an aversion to violence :)

but seriously...
you guys are scaring me ;)

(note to Charles: please be gentle. I learn like a dog: positive re-enforcement and praise. lol)

;) k

[Charles]

Originally posted by khaki
I learn like a dog: positive re-enforcement and praise. lolPerhaps that's my problem. I have 2 1/2 cats and no dogs. And cats pay absolutely no atention to positive reinforcement. They only see it as weakness.

[Rifter72]

Thanks for the input everyone. I wasn't trying to raise any hackles out there, it's just that I like to learn things the right way, from the start. Whether its HTML, a chainsaw, or a bag of microwave popcorn, doing it the right way can save you from a big hurt later. That's all I was hoping to get from this thread.

I have actually already been paying alot of attention to the W3 and I've downloaded some of their guidelines for further reading. Thanks to all answered and provided advice.

[Charles]

Originally posted by Rifter72
Never stop learning, always ask questions! A dear friend of mine has tattooed on his arm the words "Learn or die!"

[khaki]

Originally posted by Charles
A dear friend of mine has tattooed on his arm the words "Learn or die!"as a threat....
or as a reminder
:confused:

...and when you say that you have 2 1/2 cats....
the "1/2" is a stray? or a "step-cat" acquired via marriage?

and me-youch...
please be sure to warn your cats that if they even think about trying to insult me by calling me "weak"...
I will scratch their little eyes out! :eek:
(I may learn like a dog... but when my fur comes up and my claws come out... I fight like a tiger ;) )

currently purring (but don't antagonize the kitty)... :)
;) k