ASP vs. PHP

[CSUjr]

Hi,

I am fairly new to Web Development and I have a basic question.

I am developing a web site in Dreamweaver 8.

I have decided to have my hosting package support ASP rather than PHP.

This is primarly because I have an ASP supported Forum on my site.

However, I have recently found that I could make good use of MySQL in developing one of my apps - which would require my host to support PHP.

As far as I know, I can not have my host support both ASP and PHP, I believe that it has to one or the other.

I have considered changing over from ASP to PHP, but that would mean that I would have to scrap my ASP Forum.

So....my question is;
Are there greater advantages - overall - in using PHP vs ASP? :confused:

Thanks,

Charles

[the tree]

My father always says that for large scale projects it has to come down to Oracle and C, (although he doesn't really do Web), but the other side of his argument is that at the level of a hobbiest or an academic, application choice is really just a matter of preference.

The differences between the two languages will become apparent when you get to the level when you actually care about server load, where PHP running on UNIX becomes the obvious choice. Before then, the Bart Simpson awnser applies quite nicely: "Who cares?"

I would assume that your ASP - based forum is already using MySQL (which ASP handles reasonably) or MSSQL (which ASP handles well), if it is a flat file forum then maybe you should switch, flat file sucks.

[CSUjr]

Thank you for your response.

Then from what I understand from what you have said is, that I can write an app in either MySQL or MSSQL and upload it to my site with no problems.

Is my understanding of what you have said correct?

Also, how do I find out if my Forum is a "flat file Forum"?

What the heck is that? :confused:

Thanks,

Charles

[poiuy]

At the end of the day it seems more people go with PHP simply because ASP is to closely related to Microsoft and considered evil :mad: .

No difference in the two. But if you're going to be looking for work in the web programming field you may want to look at learning PHP at least since it seems more companies require knowledge of that versus ASP.

[drhowarddrfine]

And if you use ASP, you must use Windows and their servers which cost more. Sometimes a lot more.

[felgall]

Microsoft replaced ASP with .NET some years ago. As for which of the different languages is better well PHP hosting is usually cheaper than ASP or .NET hosting because PHP hosting usially runs on UNIX/Linux while ASP and .NET usually run on Windows (which costs more for the operating system plus for the language both of which have to be purchased). That they come from Microsoft is irrelevant as open source "free" operating systems/scripting languages are by definition cheaper than ones you have to pay for. You will also find that big companies tend to run ASP/.NET rather than PHP and therefore if you want to work as a web programmer for a big company then those technologies are the ones to learn and use. Apart from that there isn't a great deal to choose between them apart from personal preference.

[NogDog]

MySQL does not require PHP, and vice versa. PHP has native support for a number of DBMS's, as well as an ODBC interface. Likewise, ASP/.NET can interface with MySQL (you'll have to check with the ASP/.NET experts as to the details, as I've only worked with MySQL in a PHP environment).

However, PHP and MySQL are popularly paired together due to their open-source availability and multi-platform support.

[timmah]

ok so a couple wrong answers....

For all the peeps answering questions above felgall - please dont pass on miss information, it is ok to look stuff up.

ASP can be run on linux and windows. for a little reading lookup chillisoft asp

MOST ASP/.NET applications can be run on windows. -http://aspalliance.com/387
to be fair you must compare php vs. asp vs. asp/.net

asp and asp/.net are different languages so first you need to find out what kind of asp is running on your server... do they handle .net .... a little article about the differences http://www.w3schools.com/aspnet/aspnet_vsasp.asp

Another extremely important thing to mention is that "new asp" is a subset of .NET which is a framework. It allows you to bring together other objects from other languages in the framework. IE c#. It is uber object oriented.

The reason people get mad with microsoft (besides the cost) is the security holes and bugs that go unfixed for months,years,..... whereas most php bugs are fixed in 24hours .. they are really good about fixing them...

Php - so many built in functions compared to the og ASP. Since it is open source everyone seems to be happier giving away their code and you can almost always find libraries/classes on anything for free. For example, http://www.hotscripts.com/, its like 12k php, 1k asp.net, 3k asp.

As for the cost, I think if you look around you will find that many hosts offer linux or windows hosting at the same price or within a few bucks at the virtual server level which I am assuming you are at.

I would go with php personally. We use it on about 90% of our projects. Don't sweat about losing your board though... there are some great free forum scripts in php - ie this one

I think dreamweaver is friendlier to php also.. to bad dreamweaver has to suck so bad in the resource management department. you open a couple files and you get fireworks going and it really slows it down...

[anthony9000]

Ive worked with both ASP and PHP and my opinion is that ASP uses less code to construct applications but it's harder to understand, and PHP uses more code and is a lot more spread out, therefore making it easier to understand. Plus PHP is free, and so is MySQL, and there is more support for PHP than there is for ASP.

But thats just my opinion :D

[felgall]

For all the peeps answering questions above felgall - please dont pass on miss information, it is ok to look stuff up.

I wasn't passing on misinformation. You have misread what I wrote. I said that they usually run on those platforms not that they only run on those platforms. They can run the other way around but such a setup is relatively rare because it requires additional software to set it up which a lot of web hosts wont support.

[russell]

the idea that linux is "free" is generally not true. not for an enterprise edition of red hat. for a small hobby web site, sure, you can use a free OS, or if you are the type to compile your own...

the server hardware is exactly the same cost.

RH cost is comparable to windows server http://www.redhat.com/rhel/compare/server/

what's amazing, is that almost everything in this thread is untrue. timmah is correct, compare php to .net, not to asp. php doesn't really have more functions than asp classic, or .net. asp help is easy to find on the web. php is no better, and i would argue worse at getting bug fixes through than ms... for exactly the reasons stated otherwise.

My father always says that for large scale projects it has to come down to Oracle and COracle and C are simply a personal preference. Oracle isn't even close to DB2 for large projects. of course the prices aren't close either.

The differences between the two languages will become apparent when you get to the level when you actually care about server load, where PHP running on UNIX becomes the obvious choice Not an obvious choice by any means. A fine choice, but server load has nothing to do with the reasons for choosing. Expertise of the programmers and network engineers and personal preference are what makes the decision. Unix definitely is a strong platform but there is nothing in particular wrong with Linux or Windows Server.

I lead a large team of programmers and we use RH Linux, Windows Server, .Net, PHP and some other stuff too. Nothing wrong with any of the choices, but definitely a lot of misinformation in this thread.

[ray326]

Thanks, Russell. In a large company you find that the specific software and tools involved have very little to do with the quality of the systems produced.

However, I have recently found that I could make good use of MySQL in developing one of my apps - which would require my host to support PHP.
There's only a coincidental tie between PHP and MySQL, Charles. You should be able to find a host that will let you run on a Windows server with ODBC connectivity to MySQL which would do what you need unless you just want to learn and use PHP.

[poiuy]

Since I fall in the above Felgall category I need to defend myself too :p

I read the OP as being he was going through a web host not hosting the site. Maybe I misread something.

Any how I stand by what I say in that more people avoid asp (.net) since it is to closely related to Mr. Gates. Yes it is true that since it was dropped a while back for .net is a reason to maybe not use it. .Net has it's similar problems with security issues that makes it less popular as well.

Check out myhosting.com. It has support for both ASP (some asp.net) and PHP. Maybe not the cheapest host out there but if set up right you can have the best of both worlds.

To correct myself there isn't much of a difference between the two. However if you want to move forward in your learning go with PHP since it is the more supported one of the two.

[felgall]

ASP.NET is far more common than PHP with major corporations. PHP is far more common than ASP.NET with hobbyists and small business.

Most (but not all) hosting providers specialize in providing PHP and don't offer ASP support, a few offer exclusively ASP support and no PHP, and a few others offer both. Of these the only ones I suggest you avoid is the last group that support both unless they are a large company that can afford to employ sufficient staff that they can employ specialists in both areas. Big corporations don't have to worry about this because they usually host the site themselves and employ people who specialize in the technology that they have selected.

[poiuy]

True Felgall.

I know this is a bit off from what you're pointing out but do you really see ASP.NET that widely used on the Internet? If I had to guess 6 times out of 10 when I see a website using any of the various forms of server-side languages it tends to be PHP.

Also that myhosting.com I mentioned really prefers Microsoft (I think they actually hosts site for them or did at one time??) yet they also provide you with a free linux server account that supports the PHP and MySQL. Funny thing is they won't do ASP.NET with any database interaction. They claim security issues as the reason.

[felgall]

Government departments, banks, and other big company web sites are commonly built using ASP or ASP.NET rather than PHP. All depends on what sort of sites that you usually visit. Most people don't pay much attention to the end of the filenames and some sites are set up to conceal what they are using anyway.

[russell]

IIS/.Net has no more significant security issues than apach/php. in fact, out of the box, php is the less secure of the two.

while it is true that there is a grass roots type of anti-microsoft sentiment, no one yet has proposed a valid reason for disliking MS. To say that .Net with database support is insecure is to say "I don't know how to configure a database server." It is done all the time in a secure fashion.

I would suggest a beginner not spend much time on ASP classic, but there are some advantages to learning .Net vs PHP. Fact is, the Open Source versus Proprietary software argument really is like a religious debate -- no one is going to convince a believer they are wrong. And bashing one over the other is pointless and fruitless. Each paradigm has their strengths and their followers. It only muddies the waters to spew out falsehoods like MS is less secure than say, Linux and Apache.

[charter]

More & more people are turning to PHP.
The main reason is that ASP is only supported on a Micrsoft Server (which can be very expensive).
PHP will work on any server including Unix and the FREE Apache server as well as Microsoft.
You can also make more use of MySQL and for databases use the FREE PHP MyAdmin.
PHP code is a lot easier to learn. Also PHP runs much faster and is far more stable than than the clunky ASP.

For more information try this website www.phpbuddy.com (http://www.phpbuddy.com/sub_articles.php?other_articles=9)

[drhowarddrfine]

You can't count on ASP or .NET to stay the same year over year. ASP is frowned upon. asp.net is the new thing for now. How long will .net be around? If someone says forever, didn't they say the same thing about asp? Perhaps asp.net is an improvement on asp but Apache and PHP are much improved over the last many years and, essentially, work the same. Plus no special high priced software required.

[russell]

ASP is only supported on a Micrsoft Server...PHP code is a lot easier to learn. Also PHP runs much faster and is far more stable than than the clunky ASP.
All false statements. It's ok to say I prefer PHP and Apache. But everything in the aboive excerpt is flat out false.

You can't count on ASP or .NET to stay the same year over year. ASP is frowned upon. asp.net is the new thing for now. How long will .net be around? If someone says forever, didn't they say the same thing about asp? Perhaps asp.net is an improvement on asp but Apache and PHP are much improved over the last many years and, essentially, work the same.Also false. How about saying "I like PHP better" rather than making up garbage? PHP has changed more recvently than ASP. ASP is highly stable and has remained unchanged for almost 10 years. PHP just changed version in the last 10 months -- mostly to correct three gross oversights that have been available in ASP for 10 years (1) True Classes (2) Exception Handling (3) A serious security flaw whereby users can create server side variables at will (register globals/magic). Plus how seriously should anyone take any comments from someone with ridiculous rhetoric in their signature. Clear signal of the uninformed.

PHP is a fine language. The choice is mostly a matter of preference, the expertise and skill of the IT staff. Where security is a primary concern, you won't often find linux or php. You will often find Unix or MS Windows Server, or a heavy hitter like IBM AS400. I don't have any serious problems with PHP, But again, let's stick to the facts rather than making up stories to pretend we know what we're talking about.

[drhowarddrfine]

How about saying "I like PHP better" rather than making up garbage? I don't program in PHP so I can't comment.
ASP is highly stable and has remained unchanged for almost 10 years. Now, go to MS and proclaim you want to program a current app using ASP and see how far they can throw you out a window. How 'bout all those VB programmers wanting to use VB in .NET without learning anything new in VB? Are you saying VB.NET is the same?
someone with ridiculous rhetoric in their signature. Clear signal of the uninformed.Talk about uninformed. You should take that 'rhetoric' and paste it on your forehead. Maybe you'll learn something because you obviously know nothing if you don't take that as gospel, rookie.
let's stick to the facts rather than making up stories to pretend we know what we're talking about.Please do amateur. Leave this to the pros on board now and go back to your intraweb myspace viewing.

[Stephen Philbin]

This is the thread police! Put the handbags down and step away from the flames!

[ray326]

while it is true that there is a grass roots type of anti-microsoft sentiment, no one yet has proposed a valid reason for disliking MS.Anti-competitive business practices, absence of any real innovation in their software, general incompetence in the development staff are my reasons but that's just me. ;) Although I applaud your calls for reason I have to disagree that ASP is usable anywhere but on IIS and that VBscript has "True Classes."