A trend I'm noticing...

[Mr Initial Man]

How many of you have noticed that people expect CSS and Javascript to do stuff best handled by HTML these days?

This goes beyond my idiotic ElementML (http://mrinitialman.furtopia.org/stuff_set_aside/ElementML/elementml.xml); rather I have seen posters looking for ways to do the impossible. For example, one fellow wanted to know how to create links using CSS. Another wants to know how to link to a style sheet via Javascript (on second thought, that may be doable.)

Anyone else noticed this?

[WebJoel]

Word of 'how bad TABLE-based layout is', is being disseminated and some newbies assume that TABLE equates to HTML (often confusing the two), as if there can be no TABLEs in a CSS-based page (which is untrue).

-It's the JAWS effect: one excellent horror/sci-fi movie about a ficticious rampaging maneatinig ginormous shark incorrectly 'educated' people about the 'dangers of sharks' and the DISCOVERY channel's seeming endless 'Shark Week' series are trying to show the REAL truth.

Myself, -Even some what, 32-years post-JAWS, I still tend to believe the JAWS movie as how a hungry shark behaves... :eek:

"ElementML" is pretty kewl though.. :p But so is a unicycle. :confused: 'Nuff said. :)

[drhowarddrfine]

Yes, I've noticed people expecting CSS to be a regular programming language and do so many things you'd think they were talking about javascript.

[potterd64]

It's a trend because the more advanced web programming gets, the more things a new person has to learn. When someone is starting out it's probably hard to distinguish the css from the html from the javascript from the server side language from the sql from the xml.

[harumph]

We have all been in newbie's shoes (and still are) and I have seen many posts basically berating them for even asking certain questions or designing their sites a certain way. We need to be more thoughtful. Many do not understand syntax. They may have been taught by an instructor that's still living in the 90's. Most people are coming to this site to get answers because they believe there are experts available to help them. I am by no means an expert, but if I can help someone complete a task after they have tried their best, everyone wins. I would rather see a post of "That way works fine. However, because standards are changing, an alternative solution is..." instead of "That's why you shouldn't design it that way. Go learn CSS and come back and we'll talk." I'm also tired of everyone blasting IE on this site. IE has made a lot of money for you AND me. They created a VERY forgiving application because not everyone coded with exacting markup. They created little bells and whistles that worked for their application. That was smart. FF said they wouldn't do some of those things because it was a security risk. I don't care. Let me decide how I'm gonna secure myself. There are applications that have the sole purpose of monitoring and patching security holes. Let them do it. This paranoia thing is out of control. By the way, once FF (and Safari) market share is high enough, it'll be hacked so fast, it'll make your head spin. FF was created with open source code, for cryin' out loud.

Plugins are built into browsers, now. Get used to it. Can a Flash file be fashioned into a security risk? Sure it can. Flash is NOT going away. It's pretty cool. If you don't know how to use it, LEARN IT, don't trash it.

If a company decides to disable Javascript because of paranoia, so be it. Or, they could hire an IT person (or group of people) with enough smarts to stay on top of security and allow you to create kick-ass web applications using every resource available to you. That's what's fun.

There. I've said it.

[Mr Initial Man]

Whoa, cool it buddy. I wasn't trying to bash anyone.

If someone wants to create links through CSS, I'll tell them why that won't work. If someone wants to do some styling through Javascript, I'll listen to what they have to say. If someone wants to create a layout with PHP, well, I'll explain... no, wait: I'll have what PHP is explained to me. (My, how time flies.)

Of course we were all newbies. Tim Berners-Lee was a newbie when he was trying to figure out what HTML would be like. We all start somewhere. I only wanted to note the latest trend amongst them, that's all.

Bashing these guys is the last thing on my mind.

[Stephen Philbin]

Beginners always ask questions that can seem comical or strange to the more experienced. It's always been that way in everything. Not just web development. That's why most of us are here: to teach and learn.

B.T.W. IE sucks the big ones. End of.

[harumph]

Mr. Initial, my diatribe was not for you. It was for those who are less sensitive to the true purpose (as I see it) of this site. I would hate to think that someone visiting would simply not post from fear of intimidation. As I said, we are all beginners at something. Give what you would like to receive.

[harumph]

Guess I should have started my own post for my rant, but it was late and Mr. Initial got me thinking.

Sorry. I'll shut up, now.

[Mr Initial Man]

Hey, it's okay.

[drhowarddrfine]

I have seen many posts basically berating them for even asking certain questions or designing their sites a certain way. We need to be more thoughtful.Well, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

(Now where did I put that stupid smiley face?)

[Stephen Philbin]

I would hate to think that someone visiting would simply not post from fear of intimidation.

Well plenty do. I remember when I first signed up. I made a post asking for some help and all I got was an ego with a keyboard. I didn't come back for a few months after that. Not until I was stuck with something and had exhausted all other options.

[chaosinmind]

I deeply believe this is occuring due to the blur of languages. Javascript was here long before CSS, and I remember when rollover links first became popular. You will still see JS rollovers to this date. CSS has been evolving, and now there are several functions that are very similar to what JS can and has accomplished. We all know these affects, Dynamic Content. Rollovers, DHTML Popups, Animations, Etc.

If I left the web for years, right when JS rollovers were popular and suddenly dropped back in today, I would see CSS in action and believe it was a flexable language like JS.

What I am trying to say, is I know some things very well and tend to ask questions about other coding languages, a lot of the time my code or even my entire approach is off or not feasable. Its the nature of not knowing how a language behaves, especially when you know other languages very well.

I dont know how many time I have written a CSS script and typed

font-family=

instead of:

font-family:

LOL.

[Mr Initial Man]

I deeply believe this is occuring due to the blur of languages. Javascript was here long before CSS, and I remember when rollover links first became popular. You will still see JS rollovers to this date. CSS has been evolving, and now there are several functions that are very similar to what JS can and has accomplished. We all know these affects, Dynamic Content. Rollovers, DHTML Popups, Animations, Etc.

If I left the web for years, right when JS rollovers were popular and suddenly dropped back in today, I would see CSS in action and believe it was a flexable language like JS.

What I am trying to say, is I know some things very well and tend to ask questions about other coding languages, a lot of the time my code or even my entire approach is off or not feasable. Its the nature of not knowing how a language behaves, especially when you know other languages very well.

I dont know how many time I have written a CSS script and typed

font-family=

instead of:

font-family:

LOL.


I believe you have the right of it, honestly. Heck, you could use Javascript still to do all your styling (heaven forbid that you do), but what you said makes a lot of sense.