PHP or ASP?

[96turnerri]

which one is best and why?

[PeOfEo]

I prefer asp.net to asp because it is a newer technology and from what I have seen is more efficient than asp classic. Also please note they are similar technologies but are still very different too, do not lump them together as the same thing.

[96turnerri]

im not saying there the same thing, just pyro and u were 'arguing' and which ssl to use for my quiz and i was just wondering what peoples opinion and choices are between the two

[PeOfEo]

We were not arguing, we just both happen to think our particular language is better and we debate or discuss them, it has never been a heated argument. But the reason I made the point of them being different is in your poll you have asp and in the disgussion pyro and I had I was talking about asp.net thats all.

[spufi]

It depends on what you want out of either. If you are just learning a sever side scripting language, then go with PHP, because it's open source, free, and works well with MySQL which is also free. Do you want to learn something that will help you get a job? Go with ASP/ASP.net. Knowing ASP/ASP.net will get you MUCH further along in the job market then PHP will.

[Sux0rZh@jc0rz]

asp.net is the r0x0rs! wewt to peofeo for introducing me to it and to a host to test it on *hands peofeo a sack full of cookies*

[pyro]

First of all, this belongs in the General section, so I moved it there.

I did, of course, vote for PHP... :) One big advantage that PHP has over ASP or ASP.NET is it's portability, or ability to be able to be used cross platform/OS. As I stated in your other thread, the fact that it is closer to C style programming is a benifit to many, as most other languages embrace this syntax. Also, not sure how big of a selling point this is to you, but PHP generally comes out better than ASP in benchmark tests (faster).

Also, as PeOfEo stated, it is more of a debate/discrepency, and not arguing... ;)

[pyro]

Originally posted by spufi
Knowing ASP/ASP.net will get you MUCH further along in the job market then PHP will. I may have to give you that one, BUT, if you are on your own, use PHP. The support community is great, and there is loads of free stuff for it (due to it's open source nature). That being said, while hard core companies may show preference to ASP over PHP (probably becuase they are running IIS servers, with other M$ products) there are loads of project type jobs that are looking for PHP developers.

[spufi]

Originally posted by pyro
I may have to give you that one, BUT, if you are on your own, use PHP. The support community is great, and there is loads of free stuff for it (due to it's open source nature). That being said, while hard core companies may show preference to ASP over PHP (probably becuase they are running IIS servers, with other M$ products) there are loads of project type jobs that are looking for PHP developers.

And I agree with you there. On my own site I look for a host with PHP. I did a site for a friend and again I used a host that uses PHP. Looking at the job market is a lot different though.

[Khalid Ali]

There is no doubt PHP is alllots better then ASP/or ASP.NET.

The only thing thats better then PHP is JSP(because it brings the humongous power of Java at your finger tips)
:D

[PeOfEo]

I dont know about php on this but I know in asp classic you dont have features like the asp.net view state and that web.config file like I mentioned before. In php do you have to hard code all of the session lengths and stuff like that? The major thing I like about asp.net is ease of use. In asp.net you can create very powerful web 'applications' with little time, the structure and layout are very straight forward and easy to use, I use vb, but C# seems to be pretty straight forward too, even though I am not used to that syntax. Also about the load on the server, that really depends on the configuration of each. If you in are specifing a bunch of source trace stuff in asp.net it will lag a whole lot more, there are basically a whole bunch of settings you can play with to make each language use more bandwidth and use less. It depends on what you want.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by Khalid Ali
There is no doubt PHP is alllots better then ASP/or ASP.NET.

The only thing thats better then PHP is JSP(because it brings the humongous power of Java at your finger tips)
:D I beg to differ about the jsp thing because JSP acts a whole lot like ASP it was basically suns counter on ASP so if using JSP is better then using PHP then that would mean ASP would be better then PHP too. I mean Java uses servelets and all but when you get into to core (this is from my reading so set me straight if I am wrong) it is quite similar to ASP.

[spufi]

One of the problems of JSP is it clocks on the slow side. I believe it clocks slower than ASP/ASP.net. Speed is not Java's strength.

[PeOfEo]

you can't truely unleash the power of java with any web process lol. The nice thing about java is when you are trying to make an actual internet application it is very logical, things like Socket.connect, I have not been using java long enough to actually write code for things like that but from what I have seen it looks straight forward. But I guess the servelet does give you a little more power then other server side languages, access to more variables maybe.

[pyro]

No, with JSP, you have the brunt of the Java language at your disposal, which is why it could be (I don't know JSP, so I can't testify to that) more powerful than PHP. ASP has no such benefit.

Also, as far as the benchmarks go, benchmarking is always done under the same conditions. They don't add extra ASP code in to slow it down... ;) Also, as spufi stated, JSP is pretty much the slowest serverside language. Not sure where Perl fits in, but I know that both ASP and PHP beat JSP in speed.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by pyro
No, with JSP, you have the brunt of the Java language at your disposal In what sence? I mean you have the syntax and all, you are using acutal java but you cannot acutally access a users machine and get data and connect socets etc, I dont see how it would be possible, there would be restrictions. If you just mean it uses Java its self well asp.net can use pure vb if you want... though vb is not nearly as universal as java. I dont know if I like java too much when it comes to website design though because it is so poorly supported by ie and even some of the other new browsers as well, I know the server is outputting html, but I am not just talking about for jsp I mean for applets etc.

[Khalid Ali]

MS might have upgraded ASP in ASP.NET so that you can use hundred % VB or C#(C Sharp),however,As for ASP VS JSP

ASP is not even close to the strength that JSP brings,and when I say that it mean that you can write enterprise applications using Java language and integrate them with JSP,ASP used to be a scaled down version of VB with few extra objects to work with the HTTP headers thats all.

You have to keep in mind one main diff between VB(ASP) and Java(JSP)( for speed...)

Most of the resources that ASP requires are 99% already loaded in a windows machine so it gives ASP an edge to be loaded fast only on windows machines ,where as when you run a Java app(JSP in this case) it has to put together all of the resources and classes to give you the power which I am referring to.

Yes JSP was in response to ASP from MS,but it was not the 90% copy of the ASP or VB languages, just as MS has recently done in C#'s case(if you know any Java you 'd know that C# is almost identical to it).talk about copying..

phew..:D

[PeOfEo]

Not copying at all! Look at c++ which was used to make java compare it with c# they all look very much the same. Also the speed of the language does not really rely on the client machine it relies on the server and how fast it can process the reuqest get the data from the data base and genorate the html, I dont understand what this would have to do with a users os.

[96turnerri]

well if you like asp so much y havnt u voted for it yet? no one has actually, i really dont know which one to learn

[PeOfEo]

Like I said I dont use asp, I use asp.net. I voted for dont use either.

[96turnerri]

ok kool which is more popular asp or asp.net?

[PeOfEo]

Deoends on what your definition of the word popular is. Right now more people use ASP, but ASP.Net is a newer technology and I would think that more people would be picking up ASP.Net then they are ASP

[Ribeyed]

Hi,
i give me vote to classic ASP over Php. I differ from above opinions in regard to support first. Yes Php is open source, but that means not a lot to some one new, beginner, novice, intermediate and to some experts. Yes i agree there is a lot of sites supporting Php but my point would be who wants to search through lots of sites to find information. ASP has a big resource centre at MICROSOFT everything you wanted to know is there. The Microsoft newsgroups are abundance of information moderated by Microsoft employees.
ASP downfalls when put up against Java because its not object-orientated. Object-orientated development has been proven to be the most efficient way to develop. Not going to go into details why, trust me it is. Java is object orientated, which is the power Pyro was taking about. Microsoft was late in entering the web development market and ASP 1 was their first attempt. By the time they got to version 3 (Classic ASP) the methodology used was not object-orientated and therefore couldn't match the power of Java. Php not to sure but i do suspect it is not object-orientated either. So in true Microsoft style (copy, copy, copy) they have adopted the object-orientated approach and developed .NET, which like JAVA is a compilation, if that’s the correct term, of classes. Microsoft have learned from Java and taken web development that one step further and developed ASP.NET.
ASP.NET can be written in 16 different languages; VB.NET, C#.NET, JScript.NET, Python, SmallTalk, Eiffel, COBOL to name a few.
C# is the newest of all web development languages and again like Pyro has said is all to similar to Java in syntax only. One major difference in syntax is Java uses what i would call bottom up. In Java you write your variables etc. at the bottom and the workings for these variables at the top, very confusing, lol, but once you get used to it you see the uniqueness of Java. Obviously C# its top down. You need to declare your variables at the top working at bottom.
I am not going to get into a ASP.NET v Java debate because you asked about classic ASP and Php.
I don't work with Php but i have been a ASP programmer for a good few years now and i haven't seen anything Php can do that ASP can't.

[PeOfEo]

But if you were a new developer why would you pick asp as apposed to asp.net? I mean asp.net is newer and has many advantages over asp, its very refined I would say, like the one example I have been using is when a user doesnt have cookied enabled it is much harder to maintain a data base session in asp because you have a lot more code to add in whereas in asp.net you just set in the web.config cookieless="ture" and boom your url is automatically pased whenever you visit the site no extra codeing. Also we have been comparing c# to java, I just dont see how you can call c# a knock off when java was made with c++ which also a syntax similar to java. I am not going to denigh that jsp is more powerful then asp, but I had always assumed they were very similar just from what I had seen, but I obviously dont know much about jsp (cant you tell?) so I will just go along with what all of you are saying.

[pyro]

96turnerri,

You haven't told us why you need to learn a serverside language yet. I agree with spufi, that if you are looking to land a job, learn ASP, but if you are on your own, use PHP.

[PeOfEo]

There are more factores less significant but still factors you need to take into account. Like for instance, I wanted to use a data base, my host at the time when I was starting asp.net hosted asp and asp.net I did not know the difference between the two at the time so I went to the book store, did not see any good books on asp so I bought one on asp.net, I am happy I did too. I just went with what my host supported and what was in stock and books a million. I think if you just want a language you should see what your hosts supports and take that into account as well. Also scripting background if you have a whole lot of talent in vb or even c++ go with the asp or the asp.net if you are good with java or even java script php might be the answer for you. We may debate over this and that and this langage is faster and this one is less work and I will pretend to know what I am talking about but really dont etc, but I think its more inportant to be comfortable with it and its syntax too.