I am in the process of designing a website - http://www.timwescott.com
I always use internet explorer - always! But a friend alerted me to problems with my site which i was oblivious too. Until i discovered he looks at my site through Firefox! I checked to see and he was right...In internet explorer it looks great but view it in firefox and it looks dreadful in two pages!!
Here is a comparison between the articles section of how each browser displays my website.
I was feeling great to after havin' gone through alot of problems with the site until i discovered firefox and my friend tells me you should always design for firefox.
The problems i've logged with firefox are:
1. Scroll bars don't work
I am using this code for scroll bars:
<div id="scroller">
Text inserted between the div tags
</div>
For some reason the firefox doesn't recognise the code!!!
2. My alt tags don't work...So when i scroll over an image...Nothing happens! In internet explorer the tags appear with whatever i'd written for them to be
3. The colours are altered! Firefox is recognising my page as having blue links which they were originally. But i've changed them to orange which you can see in explorer...
I need help to alter the code in some way or the scroll bars to work otherwise my pages are dragged down the screen setting the images out of place on screen.
WebJoel
07-23-2008, 08:19 AM
You have an incomplete !doctype and several proprietary (IE-only) declarations that 'compliant browsers' are under no obligation to adhere to.
A complete !doctype includes a URI. What you have here is letting IE go into 'quirks mode' and it is 'guessing' what you want to do. It is 'guessing correctly' in that it does what you intended to do, but other browsers won't. Trust Firefox to show you 'correctly', -even if it wasn't what you intended.
In all likelihood if checked with Opera, Netscape, Mozilla, Seamonkey, Konquror, Galeon and etc., they would all agree with Firefox. IE rides the short schoolbus if you know what I mean... :o
For instance:BGCOLOR="#000000" TEXT="#FFFFFF" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" topmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" Every single one of these, are IE-only tags.
An all-browser alternative would be"style="background-color:#000, color:#fff; margin:0;" and you've said *exactly the same thing*, -with MUCH less coding. :)
alt="descriptive text" works for ALL browsers, but IE 'shows the text when you hover-over the visible image', which is actually incorrect behaviour. The text should only be seen IF the image is absent, broken, etc. alt="" is for Accessibility (screen-readers, indexing, etc) and not 'a tool tip'. In Firefox, if you 'turn off all images' you would see that alt="descriptive text" would now be working (as it should).
HINT: for alt="descriptive text", NEVER use "image" for the text. A screen-reader will already know that this is an image, and will so-speak that fact to the user, then, it speaks the text. So alt="image" used on an "<img>" is read/spoken by the screenreader as "IMAGE: image" and, -you've just confused a handicapped user... :( -They will think, hey, -TWO images!(???)
If you WANT to force 'text to appear over an image in all browsers', add a title="descriptive text" along with alt="descriptive text".
It's a bit of a kludge but visually, you get what you wanted.
title="" is generally only used for NON-image items, like <form> or <H> tags, etc.
And 'scrollbar color' is entirely an IE-proprietary tag. OPERA at one point used it, -maybe they still recognize it(??). For the most part, this is considered part of the 'shell' or 'chrome' of a page and, for Accessibility for the handicapped, it is deemed best to NOT leave these choices up to people not familiar with color schema for issues like colorblindness, lest you have a teal scrollbar with baby-blue scroll tabs and navy-blue outline... you know what? Anyone whom is colorblind is denied seeing any scrollbar and thus, beleives that there are none... :o Entire portions of your page are effectively 'out of reach' to them..
There are javascript (and for instance, Firefox extentions) however, that can 'colorize' your scrollbars in browser but handicapped persons would not be using javascript so the colors would default to their correct ('Accessible') color schema..
The other issue, -the drop-of-content, is probably an un-cleared float, or a doubling of margin or border, -all faults of IE incorrectly doing what you wanted the page to do, and Firefox is correctly rendering your page as-written, albeit unpleasingly so... :(
RobertF
07-23-2008, 08:23 AM
You have an incomplete !doctype and several proprietary (IE-only) declarations that 'compliant browsers' are under no obligation to adhere to.
A complete !doctype includes a URI. What you have here is letting IE go into 'quirks mode' and it is 'guessing' what you want to do. It is 'guessing correctly' in that it does what you intended to do, but other browsers won't. Trust Firefox to show you 'correctly', -even if it wasn't what you intended.
In all likelihood if checked with Opera, Netscape, Mozilla, Seamonkey, Konquror, Galeon and etc., they would all agree with Firefox. IE rides the short schoolbus if you know what I mean... :o
Hi thanks for the info,
But how do i correct the problem? I'm new to all this...I'm looking for simple basic instructions on how i can get my scroll bars to work in firefox?
WebJoel
07-23-2008, 08:44 AM
Okay I've got a few minutes... I'll snag your code and see what I can come up with.. :)
---and while I'm on site-assasination, this is very bad for indexing a page:<title>Welcome to Tim Wescott.com - 'Weights On The Web' - Site Design by www.forbescreatives.com</title> "Welcome to~" and "This is my~" are un-indexable due to being so common... Myself, I'd not even use "Tim Wescott.com" but instead, describe the page "Weights on the Web" and maybe something about bodybuilding, the meaningof your page, etc. Keep the text around 10-words or less. And if the design company shown is not you, -get it off of there! It does nothing to promote YOUR weightlifting/whatever site, but instead, steals your thunder and promotes 'web-building' service over yours... :o
A good 'web site builder' can place an unobtrusive link-back to self at the bottom of the page or on the last page, but they have their 'promo' placed "before" your content on one of the most sought-after, most indexable and most highest-rated tag that Google (and most other spider 'bots) can access...
Centauri
07-23-2008, 09:21 AM
You also need to be consistant - the home page uses an incomplete doctype, whilst the articles page (in the sample pics) uses a different doctype with an xml declaration in front of it, which also puts IE into quirks mode. The css should be in an external file so all pages can reference it and provide consistant styling - the css on the articles page has (proprietry IE scrollbar crap) body styles inside the #scroller style, invalidating the rule. There are also extra curly brackets causing problems. Make use of the W3C validators to check coding.
Whether you personally use IE or not, ALWAYS develop using FF as the reference, and tweak for IE's many bugs.
WebJoel
07-23-2008, 10:22 AM
-After many interruptions ( :) ), I got this more-or-less done. I used "strict" !doctype but it validates as 'transitional' (most likely due to proprietary "scrollbars" declaration, which I left alone).
This now looks & acts the same way in Firefox 3.x and IE7. I could still go through this and condence, tweak, improve... :)
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<!-- CHANGE THE NEXT THREE LINES -->
<title>Weights On The Web - Bodybuilding by Tim Wescott</title>
<meta name="Description" content="2003 Massachussetts State Master`s Bodybuilding Champion, Tim Wescott, Over 40's Bodybuilding Champion, Trainer and author of various bodybuilding and nutrition articles. Come join our live interactive forum," />
<meta name="KeyWords" content="tim wescott, bodybuilding, competition, nutrition, training, hardcore, gym, forum, posing, training articles, nutrition articles, diet, strength training, over 40's bodybuilding training, competing, 2003 Massachussetts State Master`s Bodybuilding Overall Champion, N.P.C. National Level Bodybuilder, 2x N.P.C. Masters Nationals Finalist in 2000 & 2001, 1999 Massachusettes State Champion, Photo gallery, Shop, links, Weights On The Web, NPC, NPC New England Championships, Nabba, fitness and bodybuilding, powerlifting, oldschool, forbes creatives, bodybuilding art," />
* {margin:0; padding:0;}/*re-set everything to "zero" for cross-browser similitutde*/
BODY {scrollbar-base-color:#000; font:12px arial, geneva, verdana, sans-serif;
/* "scrollbar"-etc is IE-proprietary: other browsers ignore it */
background-color:#000; color:#000; margin:0; padding-bottom:15px;}
/*IE does not recognize margin-bottom, souse padding-bottom instead*/
a:link {text-decoration:none;} /*this Selector is inherited: no need to re-state it*/
a:link, a:visited, a:hover, a:active {background-color:#000; color:#FCB514;}/*these Values are shared, so combine the Declarations*/
/* General link behaviors */
a {}/*vailable*/
a:link {}/*available*/
a:visited {}/*available*/
a:hover {}/*available*/
a:active {}/*available*/
#navigation a:link, #navigation a:visited, #navigation a:hover, #navigation a:active
{background-color:#000; color:#FCB514; text-decoration:none;}/*these Values are shared, so combine the Declarations*/
#navigation {width:230px; /*border:1px solid white;*/ padding:20px 0 15px 0;}
#navigation li {text-align:center;margin:10px 0 0}
#navigation li a {color:#FCB514; font-size:1.11em;}/*inherited values: no re-state required*/
#navigation li a:link {}
#navigation li a:visited {color:red;}
#navigation li a:hover, #navigation li a:focus {letter-spacing:0.21em; color:white;}
/* "focus" above is the same as "hover", except that it is for NON-mouse event (TAB, hotkeys, handicapped access, etc)*/
#navigation li a:active {color:yellow;}
<div id="right">
<img src="http://www.timwescott.com/picts/frontcover1.jpg" class="mainPIC" alt="Weights On The Web with Tim Wescott" />
</div>
<h1 title="Welcome to Weights on the Web" style="width:220px; float:left; color:#fff; text-align:left; padding-left:12px; font-size:1.2em; margin:40px 0 5px 0; ">Welcome to</h1>
<img src="picts/frontsmalllogohomepage.jpg" style="width:207px; height:53px; clear:left; margin-left:30px;" alt="Weights On The Web with Tim Wescott" />
</body>
</html> I did change the width of this, from "700" to "675px" as we're no longer using TABLEs here, and we lose that cellpadding/cellspacing and etc..
I marked-up the tags a bit, to make them readable to Accessibility user-agents, indexing, etc..
questions? -ask! :)
enjoy!
RobertF
07-23-2008, 07:15 PM
There's a problem with your code though when viewing the page in explorer.
Active x controller appears which when clicked upon seems okay. But as soon as i scroll over the buttons the outer table folds in half cutting off my design!!
custardface
07-24-2008, 04:16 AM
Ok im going crazy here haha - i code and test in firefox, silly really as i thought that firefox would be the best thing to test the code in as i thought IE would always work - silly silly assumption i know.
Well i have been coding this site and in firefox it works fine... but in IE the <div id="navigation"> </div> doesnt work - doesnt even show up.
What am i doing wrong, is it the CSS or the HTML?
sorry for being silly, is it the doctype issue from above? :p
PS nice to meet everyone im new to here!!!
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custardface, you should have started a new thread ...
Your #navigation div should be inside #wrapper - it is currently outside it and is behind #wrapper due to the way IE stacks elements.
custardface
07-24-2008, 11:18 AM
oh oops - sorry i didnt realise... i thought it was a similar issue etc.
Apologies
Thank you so much for your help i will get on the case tonight.
Regards
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