Well, I tried my XML-based site in Browsershots.org...

[Mr Initial Man]

A poster on this forum suggested I test my XML website on browsershots.org to see how well it worked. I ran into troubles with 20 out of 77 browsers tested (more than 1/4 of them).

Below are the browsers I had difficulty with.

Epiphany 2.22 for FreeBSD 7.0
Firefox 2.0.0.16 for FreeBSD 7.0
Galeon 2.0.6 for FreeBSD 7.0
SeaMonkey 1.1.11 for FreeBSD 7.0
Opera 9.52 for FreeBSD 7.0
MSIE 7.0 for Windows XP
MSIE 6.0 for Windows XP
MSIE 8.0 for Windows XP
Flock 2.0 for Windows XP
Kazehakase 0.5.4 for FreeBSD 7.0
Firefox 3.0.1 for FreeBSD 7.0
Opera 7.11 for Windows XP
MSIE 5.5 for Windows 2000
Konqueror 3.5 for Ubuntu 8.04
Konqueror 4.1 for Windows XP
Dillo 0.8.5 for Debian 4.0
Dillo 0.8.6 for FreeBSD 7.0
MSIE 5.01 / Windows XP
W3M 0.5.2 for FreeBSD 7.0
Elinks 0.11.4 for FreeBSD 7.0
Firefox 1.0
MSIE 4.0


I ran into the following problems with those browsers

#1 - 8 had problems that could be unrelated to the page itself.

#1 - #5 all had the exact same error page: for some reason, something on the network decided that my website held adult materials and displayed a "Site Blocked" message, which made me think the error pages all came from the same computer. Other versions of those browsers displayed the page just fine, though.

#6 - #8 couldn't access the Browsershots page itself. I did, however, test the page on MSIE 6.0 and 7.0. myself, and they worked fine.

#9 - #13 all showed blank pages, but other versions of browsers #9 - #11 worked fine, as did newer versions of #12. For #13, see notes for #6 - #8

The rest made me wonder.

#14 - #17 all showed completely blank pages with no working alternative.

#18 ran into an error processing the relevant XSL file.

#19 and #20 wanted to save the page to the computer. #19 displayed the following: "(Download)Save file to: chrono_3_11.xml", while #20 asked me what I wanted to do with an XML file. The result of #20 reminded me of a browser I have on my own computer: Lynx (which I wouldn't use to view a comic anyways.)

#21 failed to load, and #22 was unavailable.

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There is, however, something that this test did NOT address. How much do I need to worry about browsers #14 - #22?

[drhowarddrfine]

Can I look at this? I run Ubuntu, FreeBSD, and have FF3, Konqueror. I do know people who use Elinks w3m but not sure what versions those are.

I don't know if browsershots is the best place to test xml sites.

[Mr Initial Man]

Sure! *Points at the link in his signature.* That's the site.

One poster said it already worked in FF 3.0.1, so that should be no problem, but I do have questions about Konqueror.

But what I would like to know is who still uses MSIE 4.0 or Firefox 1?

[Stephen Philbin]

Seems a bit hit-and-miss in my version of Konqueror (3.5). The main page and http://coachrandom.furtopia.org/Wars/comicwars.html work fine, but some of them such as http://coachrandom.furtopia.org/Chronological/chrono_0.xml , http://coachrandom.furtopia.org/Subjects/subjects.xml and http://coachrandom.furtopia.org/Stories/storylines.xml are presented as blank pages.

[Mr Initial Man]

Well, the bio, cast, feedback, links, and main pages are all done with HTML, which I'd HOPE Konqueror could handle. It's the XML pages that I'm worried about.

[Mr Initial Man]

I did more research on some browsers. Elinks seems to be a text-only browser, which means you can't view the comic anyways. Dillo, W3M, Konqueror, and MSIE 5.5 and lower are the ones I'm worried about.

Million-dollar question: how common are these browsers?

[Mr Initial Man]

I did more research, and the following browsers have no support for XSLT:

Amaya, Dillo, ELinks*, iCab, Konqueror, Links, Lynx*, Mosaic**, Netscape Navigator**, NetSurf, OmniSurf, WorldWideWeb, and w3m.

* Text-only
** Unsupported

Again, how common are these browsers?

[drhowarddrfine]

Compared to the big 3/4/5, nil, except maybe Konqueror.

[Mr Initial Man]

Do users of Konqueror usually have another browser to work with as well?

What would be the "Big 5"? I know Internet Explorer and Firefox would be 2, but what are the others? Maybe Opera is one?

And how common is MSIE 5.5 and lower?

[Stephen Philbin]

My version of Konqueror is not the most up-to-date version, by the way. I think we're up to version 4.1 now, but I stuck with 3.5 because 4.0 seemed rather crap as a desktop environment.

I've done almost nothing with XML-related stuff for a while now so my memory is a bit vague, but I think Konqueror was the last straw that made me give up on the idea of using client-side XSLT for a few years. My crappy site that needs a complete overhaul makes use of XSLT on every single page, but it's all server side because IE, Firefox and Konqueror were all being a pain in the arse.

[Mr Initial Man]

Internet Explorer 6 and 7 work fine, as do most browsers on Browsershots.org.

[drhowarddrfine]

Well, I've lost that monitor for a week till my wife's new one gets in and I'm too lazy to swap them around.

It would be interesting to see a write up on the gotchas, tricks, hints and tips as you've been working on this. I messed with it a few years ago and just haven't had time to deal with it since but would love to see what you found out.

[Mr Initial Man]

You want me to describe how I pulled this off?

[drhowarddrfine]

Well, anyone can read up on how to write XML for the web but there are all those "yeah, buts" you don't find out about until you get there. So what absolutely works as "they say" and what doesn't? What doesn't work at all or is easier than you thought? What works here and there but not everywhere? What tripped you up and what have you still not got to work right?

Why is the sky blue? Is there a god? What do women want?

[Mr Initial Man]

Should I post them here or should those be put in a new thread in the XML forum? I did run into a "Yeahbut" for Opera with a sadly easy fix.

[Fang]

I can move this thread to the XML form which would be more appropriate.

[Stephen Philbin]

I'd certainly be interested in reading your findings. It's been quite a while since I last did a decent amount of tinkering with XML in browsers and I would probably find your write-up very helpful for when I come back to it. However, I would suggest that you consider writing an article about it for somewhere like Webreference.com. That way you'll get paid for it and it won't get quickly buried under all the other threads.

Just remember to let us know when it gets published and give us a link. ;)

[Mr Initial Man]

How do I publish with Webreference.com?

[Jick]

How do I publish with Webreference.com?I believe you need to get in contact with LeeU (http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/member.php?u=18978) for that. I think he is the guy running that show. I could be wrong though. Just don't shoot me if I am. :p

[drhowarddrfine]

As Mr. Initial Man's representative, my usual 10% fee applies.

[Mr Initial Man]

I'll give you 10% of what I've gotten so far for my writing.

Lessee, 10% of nothing is... *Thinks, writes a bit.* Ah, yes! Exactly diddly.squat!