Hello everyone. I just found this forum while researching for a possible way to make what I've dreamed up a reality.
The reason I thought of this idea is because I'm deaf and it has to do with deaf and web videos. So I hope this is the right place to ask about this.
With video so popular on the internet it can be a little frustrating for people like me who can't enjoy it to it's fullest. Yes, some online videos have subtitles but it's still a fairly rare thing. In my searching I'd say the number of online videos that are subtitled are less then 10 percent. I can' understand why this is of course for most people aren't deaf. But there are many hard of hearing people that would benefit from subtitles as well. Not to mention subtitling videos in other languages.
So, I came up with an idea that might help people like me. It all started when I'd see friends and family watching things like TV shows on their computer. I looked around and quite often you can find the subtitles for those shows. They are usually (.SUB) or (.SRT) files. They can play with video players that have the right codec such as a DIVX player or Windows Media player. Currently the only way to add the subtitles to an online video is to Download the video and play it in a player that supports subtitles. But most sites don't allow videos to be downloaded.
So here's a solution I came up with. To help explain I made these two images.
Taken from tv.myyearbook.com
http://www.magicjax.com/subtitle1.jpg
This above image is what you would see if you watch the TV show on that site.
http://www.magicjax.com/subtitle2.jpg
This image above is an attempt to illustrate what I have in mind. A seperate subtitles file player with a transparent background. IT can be dragged on the screen and placed over the video and display the subtitles.
Now I realize that the transparent background might be a challenge but if that's not possible then perhaps a subtitle played that I can place below or above the video will do.
I'm not a programmer or developer. I do some graphic design work but I don't have the knowledge to make anything like this. Which is why I'm here. I'm not sure if this is the kind of forum for this kind of thing but I searched for developers and program designers in hopes that I might be able to find someone that can help.
This could also be used for personal videos as well.
Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on how I might make this idea a reality?
Thanks for your time.
Ron Jaxon
Eye for Video
09-27-2008, 09:08 PM
I'd be interested in working with you on this project. Using .flv (Flash video) and embedding que points into the metadata would be one way to connect the video to outside captions. Another method could be to just measure the the time played in milliseconds and triggering events (captions) along the way.
Humm... sounds like a very interesting project.
Eye for Video
www.cidigitalmedia.com
RonJaxon
09-28-2008, 05:45 PM
Thank you for the replies guys.
Let me share the thing that I have tried out. Keep in mind that I don't have much programming knowledge.
I downloaded a SRT file. For example you can find them at http://www.opensubtitles.org/en
Assuming a video is an hour long. Using windows media player I made a video that's a little over an hour long (Giving me room to adjust the timing on the subtitles if needed. This video had nothing but a black background image. To make the file smaller I converted it to a FLV video.
Now I placed that video file in the same folder as the subtitles (SRT) file and gave them the same name so the subtitles will play on the video. What I ended up with is a video that only shows the subtitles. I used Total video player (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Video-Players/Total-Video-Player.shtml) because it'll play FLV files and also supports subtitles.
It's not as good as I hope it'll be but it's a start. I can make this video play any subtitles file and open the window over my browser screen. It's kind of hard to fallow though because your eye have to jump off the video to read the subtitles.
Just thought I'd share what I've tried so far. I'll look into the links you provided and see if I can understand it all. :)
Thanks again.
Ron Jaxon
Eye for Video
09-28-2008, 06:34 PM
Hey Ron,
Just a quick question... Are you looking for a video player that will play as part of a Web browser? So for example, a video with subtitles is posted on the Internet and anyone with a standard browser can play the video? or are you looking to just download the video to your local machine and then play the video in a specific video player, set up just for that purpose?
The reason I ask is that if this service to be very wide spread, you'll have to choose a video player which have Web browser pluggins available. Otherwise each and every user will have to download the specific player, then down the video file for later playback.
Best wishes,
EfV
RonJaxon
09-28-2008, 09:46 PM
What I have in mind is something like this.
Go to a site such as this one (http://tv.myyearbook.com/) and find a show you want to watch.
Then go to a site such as this one (http://www.tvsubtitles.net/) and find the subtitles file to that TV show.
Now most sites like this that you can watch TV shows or movies from (Legally) will not allow you to download their videos. So I'm thinking that if some kind of player can be made that will play subtitles files in front of a video with a transparent background. I'd just be able to open the subtitles and drag and drop it over the video that is streaming on an HTML page.
The above is how I hope it can work but I'm of course open to any other method that might work. Who knows, maybe there's a way to do it with some kind of AJAX or Javascript. But I'm thinking of an actual external player/program would prevent a lot of problem such as the issue with the different browsers that you pointed out.
I think a big challenge will be the transparent background that plays the subtitles. If that isn't possibly then something like this image might work. Not as good but it could provide the subtitles.
http://www.magicjax.com/subtitle2.jpg
I can also think of other ways this could be used other then just for deaf or heard of hearing. For example if a video is one language then you could play the subtitles in another.
How ever it could be accomplished would be great. Thanks for the offers to help out or put some thought into this. If there's anything I could do to help make this a reality let me know what I can do.
Thanks again.
Ron Jaxon
RonJaxon
09-28-2008, 10:56 PM
Oops. I placed the wrong image on my last post. It should be this one.
http://www.magicjax.com/subtitle3.jpg
Ron Jaxon
Eye for Video
09-28-2008, 11:31 PM
OK, I've got a better picture of the goal. A drag and drop subtitle application that can work with various Web videos.
My first thoughts are that overlaying a Web browser with another application will present problems with what’s called “focus”. That is, generally speaking, your computer will normally give one program or the other the focus, or first in line for user interaction. An example would be opening two programs, get them on your screen at the same time. To click from one to another, you have to change the focus. You see that by trying to type into the program that doesn’t have focus, etc.
Since the video is one application, the Web browser, and the caption reader on another, let’s just pretend we merged the two. Having the reader as part of the video application would greatly reduce the problems involved in creating this. So you just convince the video sites to install your new creation on their Web pages……Hey…what do you mean “Yeah right…”. It could happen you know…..????
So back to rule one of goal setting “Begin with the end in mind”. As this project develops, how about including a component that could be included on the server side.
The other branch of this project may require programming skills far beyond anything I can do…but I’ll experiment with a couple of ideas.
Let us know how this develops for you.
EfV
\\.\
09-29-2008, 12:09 AM
I would seriously advise against flash.
Flash is not native to the web browser, it has to be installed and I for one do not like flash.
Subtitles would be best served up in a web page along with an embedded media player. If you hide the subtitles in a hidden DIV and also the media player, then show the visitor a "Start video" button, when this is clicked, it kick starts the javascript to start the subtitles and video playback.
Subtitling would be fairly straight forward in respect to when to display the subtitles and for how long.
If you look into video subtitle formats for media, you can then see how they use a plain text file that imposes text over the video.
Eye for Video
09-29-2008, 10:36 AM
What do you mean by
not native to the web browser
Are you referring to the Windows Media Player as a part of IE? It’s not an integral part of other browsers so the “native” part is a bit confusing.
Other than Flash, what type of native “embedded media player” would you recommend?
EfV
RonJaxon
09-29-2008, 06:08 PM
Well, I've been experimenting and to be honest I almost have a possible method worked out. I stress the "Almost" because there are still some issues that I don't know how to fix.
Let me tell you what I've done. I went over it a little a couple of posts up but if you have a few minutes you can try this out yourself so you can see what issues I'm now facing.
Ok, this is the online video I found and I also found matching subtitles. Don't hold the movie against me. It's a musical and I'm deaf so I have no interest in it. LOL
Anyway, here's the online movie.
http://tv.myyearbook.com/view/8600889
Below is a link to the hour long video I made that shows nothing but a black background. It's what the subtitles will play on. It's an FLV file and it's 65.2mb.
Right click here to download (http://magicjax.com/xsubbedmovie.flv).
Now here's the Subtitles file (Extension SRT). It's a very tiny text file 95.0k.
Right click here to download the subtitles (http://magicjax.com/xsubbedmovie.flv).
Place them both in the same folder. They already have the same name. So if your player supports FLV files and will show subtitles they should play on the video. If they don't then you might have to turn subtitles on on your player.
In my experience not many players that play FLV show subtitles. I use Total Video player (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Video-Players/Total-Video-Player.shtml) because it does support both (It's free and I never had any problems with it.
Now I can run this video and it'll show the subtitles. Open it in front of my browser where the video is playing. and watch both. It's pretty tricky because the video also includes commercials and I have to spend some time trying to get the subtitles timed with the movie. Not an easy task when you are deaf (I sometimes need to get help with that part).
Now there are two major problems I'm having with all this. First of all it would be great if I could remove the skin of the player so it has no border around it. This would allow me to place it right below the streaming video. I see the folder that came with total video player has a "Skins" folder and the images that made the skins. I wonder if I can manipulate them.
Now I come to the biggest problem. If I can work this out I think I'd pretty much be set. Won't be the best but it would be usable. The problem is that when I shrink down the window of the total video player that's displaying the subtitles. The text on the screen also shrinks. So if I shrink it down to a size that will fit under the streaming video the text becomes too small to read.
Here are a couple of screen shots.
http://www.magicjax.com/subtitle4.jpg
http://www.magicjax.com/subtitle5.jpg
Like I said. Maybe there are other ways. I'm just trying to figure a way out with my limited knowledge. I appreciate all your replies.
Thanks again.
Ron Jaxon
Eye for Video
09-29-2008, 11:32 PM
Looks like you're making progress Ron. I understand a lot better what you are trying to do. Thanks for the images to illustrate.
Here is a thought.. can you get the .fla for the player you are using? This is the editable file for the player. Once you have that, it's possible to change what you see as a skin...slim it down..get rid of ALL the stuff that gets in the way of viewing the movie.
Lacking that…..perhaps we can create a proper video player for this purpose. Problem with the player now is that it’s set to play regular shaped videos. So create a video player specifically for subtitles.. short, squat, no extra stuff along the top of the player (File, View, Play, etc…). If controls are needed, they could be below the subtitles. Determine the exact size so you don’t have to resize when you drag below the video (what size would that be???).
I’m not sure if any players I’ve created will play subtitles…. I’ll have to look into that and try to learn a little about what that takes.
Best wishes,
EfV
RonJaxon
09-30-2008, 12:47 PM
Thanks so much for looking into it. I have no idea how to make a player but I'll look around and see if I can find a place to learn.
The player will definitely need to have controls because it'll take a little work to get the subtitles lined up with the movie/show. Many of them will start at a different time then the subtitles are set to. The first line of the subtitles might start at 00:01:25 but the first line of the actual movie might start at a different time. So sometimes I might need to adjust one to match the other. I'd also have to pause the subtitles when they place commercials on the shows.
If it's a video I'd like to watch more then once. I could adjust the subtitles to match it better using a subtitles time adjuster program. So once it's set to match the video the playback will be much easier to watch the next time.
When I did some research I found that there are an estimated 28.8 million people comprise the American deaf community. My point is if I can get this to work there are people who might find this useful other then just me.
Thanks again for your help. I'm going to go see if I can learn how to manipulate my player.
Ron
RonJaxon
09-30-2008, 12:54 PM
Is this the file you where referring to EfV? IF so do you have any suggestion of what changes I should make. I have some HTML knowledge and can understand some of it but not all. I see there's a command "stretch" used quite often. I'm wondering if one of them would allow me to prevent the subtitles to not shrink when I shrink the player as it's playing.
Here's the code of the entire file. This was found in the "Skins" folder of the player.
Thanks again. Just thought I'd show it to see if any obvious changes can be pointed out. Ideally the player has no border. Must still have controls though (Pause, play, etc...)
Ron Jaxon
Eye for Video
09-30-2008, 01:11 PM
Hello Ron,
I use many video players that I've built myself. The code needed for a simple player is very short and straightforward. Set the doc size to short and squat... check to see how wide the typical video shows up in your browser. This player should fit in front of and just below it. So let's just say 400 wide by 60 pixels high (for two lines of subtitles plus one line of controls). You don't want to resize it. From the Library panel, far top right corner, click and open the little list box. Choose "New Video". Drag that video onto the stage. Set the video size to 400 X 40, leaving the rest of the space for the controls. Name that instance "video_screen".
Here is all the ActionScript (AS2) you need for a simple player.
var nc:NetConnection = new NetConnection();
nc.connect(null);
var ns:NetStream = new NetStream(nc);
video_screen.attachVideo(ns);
It will play videos. Controls can be added fairly easily. Using a playlist will involve using an array and a little more involved AS.
One thing I've never done is to create a player which will read the subtitle file. That will require some research.
Here are a couple of sources for good tutorials:
www.gotoandlearn.com
www.learnflash.com
Best wishes,
EfV
RonJaxon
10-03-2008, 02:52 PM
Hey check this out!
Go to abc.com. You can watch full episodes of TV shows and some of them have closed captions. The captions shows up in a separate table below the streaming video a lot like I'm trying to make. But this is embedded in the page (Not drag and drop such as how I want it to be). But I wonder what they are using to make it and time it to the video.
For those of you who have been looking into this with me (And I'm very thankful for your efforts). You can go there and see what I'm talking about.
To check it out go to abc.com. Click the "Episodes" link. You might have to install some plug ins to watch their videos.
If the show has closed captions you'll see a little "CC" down above the time line of the video. To make it easier to find one I know that the "Extreme makeover home edition" episodes are closed captioned. Click on "Settings" to turn closed captioning on. Then watch a few minutes of the show and you'll see how it displays the closed captions.
The above may seem like a lot of work but it really isn't. Took me about 3 minutes (including installing the plug ins).
I'd sure like to learn how they are doing it.
Ron Jaxon
Eye for Video
10-03-2008, 07:56 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I took a look and it looks like a pretty slick set-up. This is a good example of how the Web site owner can provide the close captioning. That was a Flash player using an external file (perhaps .xml or .srt) for the captions. Doing the development on that side rather than on the viewers end would utlimately provide the best solution. Downside is, how to convince the various video providers to adopt closed captioning. That should perhaps be one arm of the project.
Another should be to learn how to create a video player which will read .srt or other caption files. Here’s an example of one of my Flash slide shows with captions almost exactly like the abc version. Photos only right now, not yet videos:
http://www.victorslavender.com/gallery.html
This player uses an .xml file for the captions.
You will have to look at the project from different angles:
#1 You have the video and you have the captions file.
Then you could create a custom player and stick in the files you want. An example of this is the abc site.
#2 You have the video but no captions to go with it.
You download a video from the Internet and are searching around for the captions. Or, you have created a video and want to add your own captions to go with it. Researching this angle, I see lots of corporate and educational interest. They have videos but want to add captioning. Looking for an area of potential income… this is it! There’s a big need out there to devise a way to make this happen.
#3 You have neither the video or captions.
This is the situation of the typical Web viewer. They see a video they would like to watch, don’t have the actual video file and also don’t have the captions or any idea of how to find it.
I’m researching “actionscript to read .srt files” and came across this
http://blog.dotsub.com/?p=4
I also found a number of commercial video players out there that can incorporate subtitles, but you need both the video file and then you create or have someone create the captions file. Here’s an example of a .srt file
1
00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:02,900
Previously on prison break:
2
00:00:02,910 --> 00:00:04,510
Someone at homeland security did an enhanced
3
00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:05,850
Image search on you today.
4
00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:06,580
Who?
Simple text file.
Sorry for the rambling post..
EfV
neodec
10-04-2008, 07:27 PM
hi guys
I am in the same situation. Web is full of online shows and series in flv format and would like to play them directly with subtitles (in french) i get from subtitle sites. The only way i found for the moment is one application like Total Video Player you have found RonJaxon. But this one i use is much simplier and is exactly what you are searching for (a box over video with subtitle playing)
that app is named "DVD Subtitle Player"
Unfortunatly developpement has been stopped at first version.
It's very strange that no FLV player until now includes a subtitle support.
Another i have found to be able to do that is to use Orbit Download which allows to download any kind of flv video by catching contents downloaded by embeded flash players (youtube, megavideo). After download starts, you can begin play video from your disk (while it is still downloaded) and add your subtitle via DirectVobSub
Hope this could helpe. these are some tricky methods that works fine for me.
If you know any flv player which support online videos and support subtitles, keep in touch.
Hope this could help anyone
RonJaxon
10-06-2008, 07:05 PM
That DVD subtitle player wouldn't be bad if it had controls on the subtitles. Thanks for the link.
\\.\
10-09-2008, 09:55 AM
What do you mean by
Are you referring to the Windows Media Player as a part of IE? It’s not an integral part of other browsers so the “native” part is a bit confusing.
Other than Flash, what type of native “embedded media player” would you recommend?
EfV
I was talking about Flash, it has to be installed, it is "NOT NATIVE" like JavaScript.
WMP can be embedded in to a web page, even under simple HTML coding, plenty of tutorials already exist on embedding a media player into a web page.
Eye for Video
10-09-2008, 12:36 PM
WMP is not native to every browser and that's why it has to be installed on some browsers. Flash is by far the most widely used embedded media player because of it's cross-browser compatibility. It’s estimated that Flash is already installed on over 95% of machines with Web browsers. Because it’s not proprietary to just one browser, this cross-browser capability is why nearly all large video sites embed a Flash media player on their pages (YouTube, Yahoo, Dailymotion, etc.). They can reach a much wider audience than if they were just using WMP.
And looking to the future, with more portable and mobile devices, again Flash is leading the way in browser compatibility.
I have nothing against the WMP, it’s just not a good choice if you are trying to reach a wide audience, primarily due to it’s proprietary nature.
EfV
\\.\
10-10-2008, 03:47 AM
All windows operating systems come with a basic "Media" player" that can be embedded.
The install we know as WMP is at best to be viewed as a skin and the "Added" functionality to cope with many other audio and video formats as well as the other functions of playing CD and ripping them.
Flash has to be installed to the browser where as JavaScript is part of the operating system and web browser (of your flavor).
Flash is not available to many who use mobile internet. I have a few mobile phones with internet access and each phone browser is different and out of the 3 only one supports full HTML and JavaScript but even this draws the line and flash is not available for that browser type. The PDA I have that also has WiFi and internet access has issues.
As the world moves over to these devices, have you ever wondered why they do not support flash?
Flash is not screen reader friendly, Flash can be used to access your system that under javascript would have alerts and warnings firing off.
Yes I have tried the stuff, no I do not rate Flash at all other than it brings idiots and technology closer, by idiots I am referring to average joe muppet who knows how to turn a PC on but not what is under the hood. This is the group who do not understand issues with certain proprietary software, cry privacy issues but go and use sites like google for their email, install desktops from google and other "Helper bars" and wonder why their spanker of a Dual Core runs slower than their 15year old lappy running win3.11a.
Sorry to say I do not have the same view of Flash, maybe in time you will come to realize just what my objections to the stuff is all about. I personally do not install it, I avoid sites that are completely scripted in it and do my best to filter flash out of my life, it is large and bandwidth consuming and most flash scripts I come across have my firewall twitching.
If you want to reach a "Wide audience" then don't use flash, use basic HTML with no frills JavaScript and make your media mpeg's mpeg1 format.
Your subtitle idea sounds good but when you consider that players can "Subtitle" from an appropriate file format, your only re-inventing the wheel.
RonJaxon
10-10-2008, 05:53 PM
I suppose you'll have to be in my shoes (Deaf) to understand that just playing a video in a player that supports subtitles won't solve the problem. If I could download the shows from the internet then that would be an option. But since they don't allow you to download them then it's not possible to do so.
To really get an idea of what I need. Go to this link and try to watch this TV episode with subtitles.
Click here (http://www.hulu.com/watch/37060/heroes-one-of-us-one-of-them#s-p1-st-i0)
I can even supply the subtitles to that TV show. You can download the .srt file of this show here (http://www.tvsubtitles.net/subtitle-27705.html).
Give it a try and you'll see exactly what I'm facing. If there's a better way I'd love to know it.
Thanks again.
Ron Jaxon
\\.\
10-11-2008, 11:10 AM
Well I can not you see, I am not in the US and that host blocks non-US visitors.
As far as web content goes with the "DOWNLOAD" issue, it is possible with the right software to grab the stream whilst your receiving it and have it stored locally then saved, you can then process it, view it, upload it elsewhere.
So maybe a stream ripper is what you need.
Their was a time when you could just download a file and watch it on your PC, people now assume that broadband is everywhere, it isn't, most of the worlld is still on dial up, even my broadband dialup can not cope with these sites, the video stutters or spends more time buffering than streaming. Flash is the worst of them all, I do not go to YouTube anymore because the speed of delivery is an issue, the quality of the video is also debatable for the size, IMHO theirs too many jonny knowitalls that are putting stuff on the internet without understanding how to get the best for less.
If you read this http://benjamin-meyer.blogspot.com/2008/09/adobe-owns-web-and-they-dont-even-know.html it may open your eyes a bit more to the "BIGGER " picture. A search for issues with Flash will yield you some results also that will make you think about Flash in a different light.
RonJaxon
10-11-2008, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the reply.
Most of the major TV networks here in the USA are broadcasting TV episodes and they are all in flash. I'm working on a way to enjoy them like anyone else can. So that's what I'm working on here. I'm sure there are ways to bootleg these episodes but I don't think they want us to. I'm not if it's illegal to do so. IN either case if can get this subtitles player to work how I hope it will then the problem will be solved.
Are you sure it's blocked because of your location? I only ask because I have friends in both Taiwan and Australia who watch these streamed shows from that site. I know because we've discussed this subtitle player idea and they've testing things out with me. It might be because of what you mentioned in a previous post about not having flash installed on your computer because it's in flash on those sites. You're right though. I'm no expert so I may be wrong. But I was just surprised by the comment about being blocked from it.
Thanks again for looking into it.
Ron
\\.\
10-11-2008, 01:29 PM
The message said that I was outside the US and I couldn't access it but instead I could see what offerings that they have for "International" visitors.
The IP addresses of your friends may have been issued from the US despite living in another country, this is quite common where an ISP operates in another country but uses their own IP blocks and assign them to that country. Thisleads to situations like this.
In my case my broadband is not blocking, they don't care because they get paid per Megabyte of data in and out of the modem so it is not in their interest to block anything, more traffic = more money.
I avoid flash, it is installed "on this browser", I put it on because firefox was a constant annoyance nagging me to install it so I did to shut it up, on all other machines it is not installed.
webdeveloper.com
Copyright Internet.com Inc., All Rights Reserved.