Free Ideas

[CreativeMind]

Hi all,

Any of you ever go to an interview of employers ask you to send them some examples of your work? And once you have told them your ideas at the interview or send them your website designs or programming work that you never here back from them again.

I am a web designer/developer and I have been getting interviews but during the interview process, I feel as if they are trying to get free ideas and information from me. They are actually not really hiring at all, they just need help and getting free ideas from me. Especially at this time when the economy is going down the toilet. Businesses of all shapes and sizes looking for a free ride. What ever they can get for free.

Here are some of the questions you might be asked during an interview that they are trying to get free ideas from you:

1. Can you email me some of your best examples of your work?
2. Can you send me your source code examples?
3. If you were to get hire the next day, what are the 3 most important things you will work on with our website?
4. What some of the flaws you see in our current website?
5. What are some ways you can improve our website?
6. What are some of the most important features of creating a website?
7. How do you do cross browser testing?
8. If you were going to create a flash banner advertising on our home page, what would be your ideas?


I think you guys are getting the point of what I am trying to tell you. They may have 50 questions to ask you but they have a tactic, they will get more people to interview you so they can split the 50 questions so it does not look so obvious. Maybe they will tell you that you will meet with 6 people during the interview process. Each person that interview you will ask only 8 questions. After the interview is done, the 6 people will all get together and put all the free ideas they got from you. If they are curteous people, they might send you a nice email by saying "Thank you sir for coming in but we have decided to go with another peerson". They will make up some BS to get rid of you.

You just have to make up some BS ideas and give it to them during your interview process. You can give them some crappy ideas to their current website or whatever their products are. Give them bad ideas and hoping they will take the bait. Later on, their businesses are going down to the toilet and they realized that they are the ones who have been tricked.

Most of the crappy ideas I have given to those who have interviewed actually using my ideas. These businesses are desparate and they will do whatever ideas your give them. :D

[dtm32236]

You just have to make up some BS ideas and give it to them during your interview process. You can give them some crappy ideas to their current website or whatever their products are.

Maybe that's why you're not getting the jobs... cause you give them terrible ideas.

[CreativeMind]

dtm32236,

You might be true. What if you give them good ideas like I have before and they run off with them?

Do you think I would tell you if I had many ideas how to improve your business growth by $2.5 billion dollars by the end of 2009?

Do you think people out there would be stupid enough to run around and telling everyone they have the best ideas to make them billions of dollars? Are ideas free? Would a genius inventor run around telling everyone his new idea?

You answer is too easy and vague and predictable. I was hoping someone might have a better strategies when going for an interview without coming out feeling stupid.

One idea might be that I can tell them if you hire me, I have many fantastic ideas for your website. I would be more than happy to tell you my fantastic ideas to improve your business if I am on board. Is it possible to tell the employer that they should give me a try for the next few months and see how that goes. If my work is crappy and I show them no sign of great ideas, then they can get rid of me.

What is the best sollutions for the the employer and me to handle these types of questions? What is the fair way of doing this?

[tracknut]

(I will resist the temptation to say "get off your high horse", since I suspect you're well aware of that possible answer ;) )

In terms of the "fair way", companies often share ideas with each other, under the concept of a Non Disclosure Agreement. This agreement is signed by both parties, and essentially says "we're going to divulge our ideas to each other, but promise not to make financial gain of the other's ideas, or give them away to a third party". So in concept the concern you have could be addressed by an NDA.

In practice though, it could be touchy bringing an NDA into an interview and asking them to sign it before the discussion starts. It is commonly expected that intellectual discussion will occur in an interview, and that the interviewee should do his best to present himself in the best position, which certainly can include putting some good ideas on the table.

I can say from interviewing many folks for developer jobs in large companies, that I've never been in the situation you describe, scheming to suck great ideas out of potential employees, and then not hiring them. I never had the time to waste on such activities, and when I was interviewing, I actually needed to hire someone, and would try my best to hire the right/best person. And colluding with a group of interviewers to split up questions as you describe would have been equivalent to colluding with a bunch of folks to attempt theft from the company or any other illegal activity... if anything, that's the kind of activity you do alone, not as a group :)

As a self-employed web developer I am periodically in a similar situation as you, though. I get folks asking me to review their site and suggest changes, as they're "considering a redo of the site". In a couple cases I've provided significant feedback on what should be done to the site, then had the customer chose not to hire me. I haven't seen them go off and implement my changes with another developer, though, so I figure they just didn't like my ideas, or maybe they didn't have the money.

In any event, good luck with your interviews!

Dave

[starheartbeam]

I had a friend that had trouble with this. But sadly there is not much to do about this. If you really want the job you have to put your best work out there else they will not pick you. It is a hard time right now to try and find a job. And I feel your pain.
I would say show them the stuff that you have done that you think is good but when they start talking about their company and wanting information about that to try not to tell them no but don't tell them what the want.(I know that does not really make sense) You know something is up if they keep bringing up what you would do with the company. Try to keep it on things you have done that will show your skills but not give them a free ride.

WoW...I am not sure any of that makes any sense but OK.

I know it is hard but you will find a job! ;)

[CreativeMind]

Dave,

Sounds like you have been doing this for a long time. I like the idea of the Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA). What if during my previous interviews with these employers and they used my ideas, can I still pursue to file eligal activities against the employers for using my ideas? I suppose if I take them to court, I have no evidence to show the court that they took my ideas and used them. What if I bring in a hidden microphone and a hidden camera? I will for sure show the court video and sound evidence.

[tracknut]

I have been "doing this" for quite a while, that's why I recently dumped the corporate life in favor of working for myself. Much more satisfying...

I would be very cautious about the idea of taking this company to court, or by using a hidden microphone or camera. I don't even know if it's legal to wear a hidden microphone. If you did decide to take a company to court over such a thing, I suspect one of the first things you'd need to prove is that your ideas were documented first (prior to the interview), and that they were unique enough to not have been created at around the same time by any other reasonable developer. If you have such supporting evidence, then (given I am not a lawyer) IMO you're one step down the road of proving your ideas were stolen. If you don't have such evidence, then my guess is you're out of luck on this particular effort.

An NDA is also touchy, but has some formal mechanisms. Say you and I are going to meet, and we agree and sign an NDA at the beginning of the meeting. Then as we're chatting, you say "Say Dave, I have a great idea... " and go on to describe some idea. If this particular idea is not referenced in the NDA (ie, maybe you just had it on the spot), I can legitimately claim that the idea came out of thin air, during a mutual brainstorming session, and therefore can be used by either of us. So you'd need to come to the table with an NDA listing one or more fairly specific ideas (not the technical details, which should be well-documented and archived by you in advance of the meeting), so that you can bring it up as "this is Idea #1 in the NDA" as we move into that discussion. And I need an opportunity to say "actually, we're working on something very similar to your "Idea #1" and we call it "Idea A" and I think it's a mistake to go any further with the discussion because I don't want to be perceived as having stolen your idea".

The advantage there of course is that both parties have a formalized process to disclose their ideas without fear of theft. I'm sure there are plenty of lawsuits even after discussions are based on NDA's, but my understanding is that the NDA is sort of the equivalent of the "contract" in so many other situations. If you don't have one, you're making a big mistake sharing proprietary information.

Dave

[CreativeMind]

Dave,

Your advice is very logical and detailed to the hair line. Thanks my friend and to all who gave me advice regardless if it makes sense or not. :D

[opifex]

an employer side input....

we have "in-house" developers and designers, 2 or 3 apprentices (always) and almost a dozen freelancers that we work with on a regular basis.

EVERY person that works with us is required to present samples of design/coding and server-side coding/programming and are tested on the skills they "claim to have" before even being considered for an interview. This includes freelancers.

tough? yes. unfair? NO!

bottom line for any company is the service and product delivered to the client... and in our case i personally approve every product before it is delivered because my reputation as well as the company's depend on quality and service.

think about it.... how many members of this and other similar forums promote themselves as web designers, web developers, programmers, etc. and ask questions about the most basic coding skills and concepts of the trade?

the answer is "too many" and some of them may be actually working somewhere... want them to design and develop your website or application?

[Reli4nt]

Anyone can take your ideas but setting up an interview to do so is a terrible investment in time when you could just Google for most ideas you need. Ideas are worthless. I don't know how to stress that enough. The execution of those ideas is what matters.

Stop letting the prospective employers control the interview. Ask them more questions, show them how you can do things they can't even dream of. If you are a font of understanding and inspiration and have a strong grasp of how to implement those ideas then they can take an idea or two but they can never make up for not having you.

[gabriele]

CreativeMind,

showing someone samples of you work, or completed projects is fine and completely acceptable..

Asking you for specific answer/suggestions in regards to their own site, or a project they have is work that has to be paid.

To be precise, it is called consulting.

And you should expain to them that you can not provide consulting services for free.

If they want ideas, then tell them to make a contract for a specific amount of suggestions, plus a specific amount of corrections to one of the selected suggestions..

This is how the market works (or should work :rolleyes:)