flyinpc
11-17-2008, 03:57 AM
Hello, I'm New here. Can you explain what a " beta " download is , why i should take it or not. I'm on Vista. Thanks for your help.
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scragar
11-17-2008, 04:14 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle
beta software is normally buggy and unstable, has a few missing features etc, but on the other hand it's normally also new stuff with features unavailable elsewhere.
Personally I like to try some beta software(and the occasional alpha release), but that's not recommended for any machine you want to use for production because of the stability concerns.
beta software is normally buggy and unstable, has a few missing features etc, but on the other hand it's normally also new stuff with features unavailable elsewhere.
Personally I like to try some beta software(and the occasional alpha release), but that's not recommended for any machine you want to use for production because of the stability concerns.
felgall
11-17-2008, 08:49 PM
Once a major software developer gets a reasonable distance into a big project they make an alpha release available to some of their big clients so that they can get feedback on what they think of it and to ensure that they include the right features to meet their clients needs. When it gets closer to completion they then release a beta version to a larger number of their clients so that they can test it out and make sure that it actually works properly. Some of the final functionality may still be missing and there are likely to still be a number of bugs in it. These all get fixed by the time the developer completes the gamma or gold version of the spftware that is the version released for people to actually use (rather than help to test).
xvszero
11-18-2008, 12:04 PM
My site has been running in "beta" for like a year now. I figure I can just leave it in beta indefinitely and then that justifies all the bugs... RIGHT?
scragar
11-18-2008, 12:12 PM
My site has been running in "beta" for like a year now. I figure I can just leave it in beta indefinitely and then that justifies all the bugs... RIGHT?
well, as long as you keep improving it, I mean lot's of programs have been in beta for over a year, in fact, wine finally came out of beta on it's 15 anniversary, so yeah, stay in beta as long as you want, just remember, most of the world are windows users, they are willing to put up with a lot of bugs and missing features as long as you tell them it's not possible to get better.
well, as long as you keep improving it, I mean lot's of programs have been in beta for over a year, in fact, wine finally came out of beta on it's 15 anniversary, so yeah, stay in beta as long as you want, just remember, most of the world are windows users, they are willing to put up with a lot of bugs and missing features as long as you tell them it's not possible to get better.
xvszero
11-18-2008, 01:44 PM
Heh, I was half kidding. My site is basically me and about 20 members who actually use it, mostly my friends or soon to be my friends after joining the site, so they understand that it is basically one amateur programming the whole thing in between actual paid work (and having a "life" of sorts) and they have a lot of patience.
Actually though it's not buggy at all... in Firefox. Which I highly, highly recommend to everyone using it. IE there are a few minor bugs, nothing that kills the site... I think. There is really only one guy who complains about IE bugs though and that is only because he uses a work computer to view it and he has no rights to install Firefox at work. I'm pretty sure everyone else is on Firefox.
I try to fix IE bugs, but when it comes down to me only having a few hours here and there to work on it and a choice between using that time to add new cool features for the many Firefox users or working out small but annoyingly hard to pin down bugs for the few IE users... not much of a choice.
Actually though it's not buggy at all... in Firefox. Which I highly, highly recommend to everyone using it. IE there are a few minor bugs, nothing that kills the site... I think. There is really only one guy who complains about IE bugs though and that is only because he uses a work computer to view it and he has no rights to install Firefox at work. I'm pretty sure everyone else is on Firefox.
I try to fix IE bugs, but when it comes down to me only having a few hours here and there to work on it and a choice between using that time to add new cool features for the many Firefox users or working out small but annoyingly hard to pin down bugs for the few IE users... not much of a choice.
\\.\
11-22-2008, 06:25 PM
My site has been running in "beta" for like a year now. I figure I can just leave it in beta indefinitely and then that justifies all the bugs... RIGHT?
Wrong.
One day you will roll up to your website and wonder where it has gone to... then realize that your "Buggy" code had allowed a hacker, script kiddie or net vandal in and destroy your hard work.
Wrong.
One day you will roll up to your website and wonder where it has gone to... then realize that your "Buggy" code had allowed a hacker, script kiddie or net vandal in and destroy your hard work.
scragar
11-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Wrong.
One day you will roll up to your website and wonder where it has gone to... then realize that your "Buggy" code had allowed a hacker, script kiddie or net vandal in and destroy your hard work.
It's possible for buggy code to be secure, don't assume it's not secure just, because it has problems.
Example, this PHP code is secure, but has a few bugs:
if(isset($_GET['x'])){
$x = preg_replace('/\D/', '', $_GET['x']);
echo "$x squared is ".($x*$x);
}
echo <<<HTML
<form action='?' method='get'>
<input type='text' name='x' value='enter any number'>
<input type='submit' value='square it'>
</form>
HTML;
One day you will roll up to your website and wonder where it has gone to... then realize that your "Buggy" code had allowed a hacker, script kiddie or net vandal in and destroy your hard work.
It's possible for buggy code to be secure, don't assume it's not secure just, because it has problems.
Example, this PHP code is secure, but has a few bugs:
if(isset($_GET['x'])){
$x = preg_replace('/\D/', '', $_GET['x']);
echo "$x squared is ".($x*$x);
}
echo <<<HTML
<form action='?' method='get'>
<input type='text' name='x' value='enter any number'>
<input type='submit' value='square it'>
</form>
HTML;
\\.\
11-23-2008, 05:28 AM
Whilst my previous statement was "Broad" it was mean to highlight the fact that bugs are what hackers, vandals and script kiddies will use to try to crowbar their way in to a site.
Yes I have had this happen to me. Although the bug was not in my code, the web host was running a vulnerable version of PHP 4 which they refused to upgrade after I brought the attack to their attention.
So whilst the buggy code may seem OK, you may very well be offering up a nice hole in site security because of buggy code in combination with the environment in which the script runs.
Yes I have had this happen to me. Although the bug was not in my code, the web host was running a vulnerable version of PHP 4 which they refused to upgrade after I brought the attack to their attention.
So whilst the buggy code may seem OK, you may very well be offering up a nice hole in site security because of buggy code in combination with the environment in which the script runs.
rhsunderground
11-29-2008, 05:36 PM
note that gmail has been in beta for about 4 years now. they're response? "we want to get it right."
Joseph Witchard
11-30-2008, 01:00 AM
By any chance is there a "delta" version of a software program or website? I'm a star trek fan:rolleyes:
xvszero
12-01-2008, 04:00 PM
Wrong.
One day you will roll up to your website and wonder where it has gone to... then realize that your "Buggy" code had allowed a hacker, script kiddie or net vandal in and destroy your hard work.
What can they actually "destroy?" I have everything backed up ten times over, and the site itself holds no information that could be used for anything outside the site (no personal information, credit cards, etc.) If someone "destroyed" anything irrevocably, I could just wipe the whole site and reload from backups. Which, considering the site gets like... 5 logins and maybe 1 or 2 posts a day, isn't a huge deal.
I guess someone could hack usernames and passwords and login and spam the forums or something, but considering I know all of the active members personally, I could just reassign passwords if I had to. Can't be too hard tow write anti-spamming code anyway, I just never bothered because in 7 years of running the site we have had a whole 1 spammer who got bored of it within a few hours before I even realized it was happening.
It's not the ideal situation but considering the site is just a fun diversion of mine I don't stress out about it. I think we get like 1 or 2 hits a day that AREN'T from members, I'm not even sure many people know the site exists. Probably not a huge target for hackers.
I'm curious though, anyone care to take a look at it and see if there are any obvious security holes? It's the site in my sig...
One day you will roll up to your website and wonder where it has gone to... then realize that your "Buggy" code had allowed a hacker, script kiddie or net vandal in and destroy your hard work.
What can they actually "destroy?" I have everything backed up ten times over, and the site itself holds no information that could be used for anything outside the site (no personal information, credit cards, etc.) If someone "destroyed" anything irrevocably, I could just wipe the whole site and reload from backups. Which, considering the site gets like... 5 logins and maybe 1 or 2 posts a day, isn't a huge deal.
I guess someone could hack usernames and passwords and login and spam the forums or something, but considering I know all of the active members personally, I could just reassign passwords if I had to. Can't be too hard tow write anti-spamming code anyway, I just never bothered because in 7 years of running the site we have had a whole 1 spammer who got bored of it within a few hours before I even realized it was happening.
It's not the ideal situation but considering the site is just a fun diversion of mine I don't stress out about it. I think we get like 1 or 2 hits a day that AREN'T from members, I'm not even sure many people know the site exists. Probably not a huge target for hackers.
I'm curious though, anyone care to take a look at it and see if there are any obvious security holes? It's the site in my sig...
felgall
12-01-2008, 08:03 PM
By any chance is there a "delta" version of a software program or website? I'm a star trek fan:rolleyes:
I suppose you could say that Microsoft released a delta version of FrontPage last year when they announced that the software was dead and buried.
I suppose you could say that Microsoft released a delta version of FrontPage last year when they announced that the software was dead and buried.
\\.\
12-06-2008, 09:55 AM
What can they actually "destroy?" I have everything backed up ten times over, and the site itself holds no information that could be used for anything outside the site (no personal information, credit cards, etc.) If someone "destroyed" anything irrevocably, I could just wipe the whole site and reload from backups. Which, considering the site gets like... 5 logins and maybe 1 or 2 posts a day, isn't a huge deal.
I guess someone could hack usernames and passwords and login and spam the forums or something, but considering I know all of the active members personally, I could just reassign passwords if I had to. Can't be too hard tow write anti-spamming code anyway, I just never bothered because in 7 years of running the site we have had a whole 1 spammer who got bored of it within a few hours before I even realized it was happening.
It's not the ideal situation but considering the site is just a fun diversion of mine I don't stress out about it. I think we get like 1 or 2 hits a day that AREN'T from members, I'm not even sure many people know the site exists. Probably not a huge target for hackers.
I'm curious though, anyone care to take a look at it and see if there are any obvious security holes? It's the site in my sig...
Don't take this the wrong way but you need to think outside the box.
My site, the databases and even certain folders had been deleted completely.
Some of these folders like the public_html and private folder had been deleted, something that I couldn't do in an FTP client nor make them either as I had tried to remake the folders but the server wouldn't let the FTP client perform the task.
The server-side attack was a "Server" attack, eg, the hacker obtained a 3 month free trial with the host, used the vulnerability in the server and inadequate security in the server to make a server side attack and deleted very important files and databases from the server side rather than the traditional full on brute force attack.
The site I was running had limited code, no forums or any means to obtain access but a hacker got in via the back door via the hosting company who had the Gaul to blame me for the issue despite me pointing out the obvious to the tech crew who then ignored my challenges... Why? Possibly because I hit on the truth and they didn't want to dig a bigger hole for themselves.
This is where server logs are important, they are a valuable tool to any investigation. My attack came from a bellsouth user :) that much I can tell you. This is not the first time this type of issue has cropped up, I had issue with Streamline.net who again, another host running vulnerable software and service.
You have to remember, hacking is not just about what you can do to web interfaces or software but also what you can do to hardware as well and the services that support the system.
I guess someone could hack usernames and passwords and login and spam the forums or something, but considering I know all of the active members personally, I could just reassign passwords if I had to. Can't be too hard tow write anti-spamming code anyway, I just never bothered because in 7 years of running the site we have had a whole 1 spammer who got bored of it within a few hours before I even realized it was happening.
It's not the ideal situation but considering the site is just a fun diversion of mine I don't stress out about it. I think we get like 1 or 2 hits a day that AREN'T from members, I'm not even sure many people know the site exists. Probably not a huge target for hackers.
I'm curious though, anyone care to take a look at it and see if there are any obvious security holes? It's the site in my sig...
Don't take this the wrong way but you need to think outside the box.
My site, the databases and even certain folders had been deleted completely.
Some of these folders like the public_html and private folder had been deleted, something that I couldn't do in an FTP client nor make them either as I had tried to remake the folders but the server wouldn't let the FTP client perform the task.
The server-side attack was a "Server" attack, eg, the hacker obtained a 3 month free trial with the host, used the vulnerability in the server and inadequate security in the server to make a server side attack and deleted very important files and databases from the server side rather than the traditional full on brute force attack.
The site I was running had limited code, no forums or any means to obtain access but a hacker got in via the back door via the hosting company who had the Gaul to blame me for the issue despite me pointing out the obvious to the tech crew who then ignored my challenges... Why? Possibly because I hit on the truth and they didn't want to dig a bigger hole for themselves.
This is where server logs are important, they are a valuable tool to any investigation. My attack came from a bellsouth user :) that much I can tell you. This is not the first time this type of issue has cropped up, I had issue with Streamline.net who again, another host running vulnerable software and service.
You have to remember, hacking is not just about what you can do to web interfaces or software but also what you can do to hardware as well and the services that support the system.
xvszero
12-09-2008, 01:51 PM
Well what I mean is I download my entire database + files frequently to my home machine... and then also copy it over to my not generally connected to my home machine backup drive, and I also have backups here at work... well, I have backups everywhere. Unless the user could somehow corrupt the actual server to the point where I couldn't just dump everything and load from MY backups (I do NOT trust my host to have usable backups,) I should be fine. And if they could do that and my host couldn't do anything about it well... time to find a new host.
If this was a serious site I'd worry more, but no one really cares too much. There were times in the past when from sheer laziness it took me a few days or a week to get to fixing site killing bugs, I'd just put a big NEGATIVE WORLD WILL BE BACK SOON! page as the index and got around to it when I got around to it. When I changed hosts I planned things a bit wrong and we were up and down for like two weeks. No one really cared. It's a low stress environment.
If this was a serious site I'd worry more, but no one really cares too much. There were times in the past when from sheer laziness it took me a few days or a week to get to fixing site killing bugs, I'd just put a big NEGATIVE WORLD WILL BE BACK SOON! page as the index and got around to it when I got around to it. When I changed hosts I planned things a bit wrong and we were up and down for like two weeks. No one really cared. It's a low stress environment.
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