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[jeff_archer7]

If you guys have the time rate this site www.libertychurch.org.au
I am after constructive critisism, I am looking for thoughts on layout design ect.... NOT CONTENT.....
Cheers ppl;)

[soccer362001]

It's not bad. I would recommend that you not use frames, instead use CSS.

[jeff_archer7]

Take another look

www.libertychurch.org.au

Is the background static

[spufi]

Here's my "It's almost 2am so this is going to be quick" reply. :p

I would change the menu colors. The colors in general are *shrug*

If you are going to use the one image as a background, don't repeat it. I would think about making that image smaller, and even putting in the upper left corner. This would save on download time(even less need for frames) and it would make your text more readable.

Oh yeah, I see no real reason for frames.

You have a large amount of spacing between your text, and your fonts sizes in general are kind of big.

Humor me, validate your Home1 page. ;)

[soccer362001]

Originally posted by spufi
I would change the menu colors.
Oh yeah, I see no real reason for frames.
Humor me, validate your Home1 page. ;)
I agree

[slyfox]

your site has some script errors on it that needs to be fixed.. also use some tables on your site to get things a bit cleared up... make it look more pro by using smaller fonts with a font like arial... too much big-small & thick-thin fonts cracks your site down... i'd also recommend using style sheets and i'd also say lose the frames... rather go for a "cool" javascript menu... get some interesting articles/scriptures on your site... so that all will go hand-in-hand with the tables... eg. articles/scriptures in frame to the left with a different bg color.. and the other/current content neatly next to it on the right with your image in the background of that table... does not really matter where your menu lies... just have a better approach than using frames...

hope it helps

[Sux0rZh@jc0rz]

first off, on windows 2000 with IE 6, when i click the buttons inside your navigation menu, the pages load INSIDE the menu. not in the main page. making them impossible to read.

secound, you use a lot of inset and outset boarders, which personally i think are ugly because on windows they are grey and stick out when you use them with colored backgrounds like you have on your site. with CSS, you can create pages that are easier to update and easier to read, plus easier to change should you feel the need. not to mention you can change the border style to something more pleasant.

third, your colors = oogly. for a church, i'd use the colors of the football/baseball team in your area OR just use nice tranquil colors
(light blue, light light brown, slightly off white, light red's, light oranges, not to many yellows, light greens-very light. not puke colored!!!.)

fourth, the background should just be ripped outta there. it is low quality but high file size.. and it tiles. if you really want a background, put in a vortex based cross or something that has a low file size but will look good AND can stretch(vortex graphics = stretch easily without losing any quality. you could use flash, or photoshop's version of vortex graphics if you want.)

[ramon_marett]

Hi Jeff,
First of all, when I clicked the buttons on the left of the screen the information was displayed in that part of the frame. And when I say displayed I use that term loosely because it wasn't really showing up at all. (But that's fixable, I think it's just a mistake).
The home page doesn't really need the text so spread out like that, if it can all fit on the screen without the need to scroll down then that's better in my opinion.
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of frames anyway, and it's better to get in the habit of not using them for SEO purposes. You can make the site look like it's in frames by copying the text on the left hand side into each HTML file.
The colours are pleasent enough (I'm not really a "believer" so couldn't tell you about godly colours........though something warmer might be better?? Not sure though, colours are always personal preference really.)
But yeah, apart from that, nice site.

[ramon_marett]

Oh and good luck to all us Pommies on Saturday. Mind you Australia was lucky to get to the World Cup Final anyway so maybe lucks on your side!!

[Sux0rZh@jc0rz]

Here is a CSS layout (provided by bluerobot.com) that looks much cleaner, is easy to update, and is customizeable.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

<html>
<head>
<title>Three Columns - Flanking Menus</title>
<style type="text/css" media="screen">


body {
color:#333;
background-color:RGB(230,230,230);
margin:20px;
padding:0px;
font:11px verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
}
h1 {
margin:0px 0px 15px 0px;
padding:0px;
font-size:28px;
font-weight:900;
color:#ccc;
}
h2 {
font:bold 12px/14px verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
margin:0px 0px 5px 0px;
padding:0px;
}
p {
font:11px/20px verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
margin:0px 0px 16px 0px;
padding:0px;
}
.Content>p {margin:0px;}
.Content>p+p {text-indent:30px;}

a {
color:#09c;
font-size:11px;
font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-weight:600;
text-decoration:none;
}
a:link {color:#09c;}
a:visited {color:#07a;}
a:hover {background-color:#eee;}


/* All the content boxes belong to the content class. */
.content {
position:relative; /* Position is declared "relative" to gain control of stacking order (z-index). */
width:auto;
min-width:120px;
margin:0px 210px 20px 170px;
border:1px solid black;
background-color:RGB(220,231,255);
padding:10px;
z-index:3; /* This allows the content to overlap the right menu in narrow windows in good browsers. */
}

#navAlpha {
position:absolute;
width:150px;
top:20px;
left:20px;
border:1px dashed black;
background-color:#eee;
padding:10px;
z-index:2;

/* Here is the ugly brilliant hack that protects IE5/Win from its own stupidity.
Thanks to Tantek Celik for the hack and to Eric Costello for publicizing it.
IE5/Win incorrectly parses the "\"}"" value, prematurely closing the style
declaration. The incorrect IE5/Win value is above, while the correct value is
below. See http://glish.com/css/hacks.asp for details. */
voice-family: "\"}\"";
voice-family:inherit;
width:128px;
}
/* I've heard this called the "be nice to Opera 5" rule. Basically, it feeds correct
length values to user agents that exhibit the parsing error exploited above yet get
the CSS box model right and understand the CSS2 parent-child selector. ALWAYS include
a "be nice to Opera 5" rule every time you use the Tantek Celik hack (above). */
body>#navAlpha {width:128px;}

#navBeta {
position:absolute;
width:190px;
top:20px;
right:20px;
border:1px dashed black;
background-color:#eee;
padding:10px;
z-index:1;
/* Again, the ugly brilliant hack. */
voice-family: "\"}\"";
voice-family:inherit;
width:168px;
}
/* Again, "be nice to Opera 5". */
body>#navBeta {width:168px;}

</style>

</head>

<body>

<div class="content">
<h1>Liberty Christian Church</h1>
<p>Sunday meetings now at 10:30am.<br>Manningham Park Primary School<br>221 Manningham Rd, Lower Templestowe, 3107<br>
</p>
<p>Liberty Christian Church Office:<br>720 Doncaster Rd, Doncaster<br>Ph. 9840 6994<br>ALL WELCOME<br>
</p>
<p>Blah Blah information here... insert more information about your church here, content...</p>
</div>

<div class="content">
<h2>Current Events</h2>
<p>30/11/03<br>TRANSFORMING POWER OF GOD<br>6:30p.m. at Liberty.</p>
<p>23/11/03<br>This week, Richard Kerridge will be sharing with us.</p>
</div>

<div class="content">
<h2>A Special Thanks</h2>
<p>We have recieved a special thanks from Africa, click <a href="http://www.libertychurch.org.au/ThanxLCC.htm" title="A Special Thanks">here</a> for more information.
</div>

<div id="navAlpha">
<h2>Links</h2>
<p>
<a href="http://www.libertychurch.org.au/Home1.htm" title="Home">Home</a><br>
<a href="http://greasyskillet.org/" title="The Website of Dave Elfving">Newsletter</a><br>
<a href="http://royrosenow.com/" title="Sketches, illustrations, and Voodoo Bob">Sermons</a><br>
<a href="http://swankyal.com/" title="A swanky weblog">Missions</a><br>
<a href="" title="">Bible College</a><br>
<a href="" title="">Youth</a><br>
<a href="" title="">Contacts</a><br>
<a href="" title="">Links</a><br>
</p>
</div>

<div id="navBeta">
<h2>Our Mission Statment:</h2>
<p><em>Reaching lost people with good news, helping them to become dedicated disciples of Jesus Christ and empowering them for excellence.</em><br>
<br><b><em>Making a difference in our City, Nation and World.</em></b>
</p>
</div>

<!-- BlueRobot was here. -->

</body>
</html>

[jeff_archer7]

Dear All

I think I have fixed most of the probs at www.libertychurch.org.au
However I'mm yet to get rid of the frames..... I think a new site rather than a re-working of the old one may be better?
let me know what you guys think.....
Is the background static?????
after all this is what my original reason for all this was....lol
Will be getting rid of the frames soon
cheers

[jeff_archer7]

Sux0rZh@jc0rz

Thanx for your code :cool: