My site...

[zachzach]

Hey peeples before I post i must say:this is not really advertising/spammer...I dont think sorry if it is:

Anyway...

My site is on its way. www.subsilvernet.com Could someone tell me if these layouts are good:
home page(http://www.subsilvernet.com/portal/index.php)
programming(http://www.subsilvernet.com/programming/)

Also I need a lot of people to join and help me.
I really need programmers, experienced or just beginning, to help. I also need people who can help me with the design. And people to be support people(return email support questions when the sitre grows big), debuggers/edititors/content mangagers/matenance people. I would greatly appreciate if people would just give tips or better yet be kind of a partner. The goal is to make a network of sites(doesn't have to be just programming related), so if you want to have your site listed, contact me at my email(admin@subsilvernet.com) or PM me. I definetly need staff and sites to join/help, so please do!

[PeOfEo]

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.subsilvernet.com/portal/index.php
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.subsilvernet.com/
the programming page also dies on ns browsers.

[pyro]

It is bordering dangerously close to getting locked as an ad, as at least half of your post (not to mention a rediculously long sig) is plugging the site, trying to get people to join...

[PeOfEo]

You have to be sneaky when you plug your products :D, don't do it so obviosuly. You have to use mind games, like this. Pyro, you want to use asp.net, you know you do. Click the link in my sig pyro, the one that says why use asp.net. CLICK IT

[pyro]

I see a bright light...

:p

[PeOfEo]

heh, it will only hurt for a second *Looks around*... I mean the truth, it sometimes hurts. You will come to grips with asp.net and eventually forgive yourself for ever bothering to pick up php :D
See, camo-plugging really works everyone!

[zachzach]

mind games oh im good at this
oh crud...oo a light....oh a rabit...wait thats off topic
ah ha i win(off topic)
i told you
nothing!
ok that was pointless

wow that was the screw..y..est...thing ...
i
have
ever
saw
seen
or
whatever
ok then

[zachzach]

php is far inferior to asp
php does not have anything even LIKE application wide vars
php is so totaly screwy its SCREWY!HAHA!I'm so smart

asp:is better


weren't those convincing reasons.

maybe I should take up one of those writing jobs
in the firing people section of it, i mean, lol :)

[PeOfEo]

asp.net > then asp classic so therefore asp.net is extreamly awesome!

[Paul Jr]

One) Zachzach, stop spamming?

Two) PHP has far more major ][D//|\|493 compared to ASP/ASP.Net :D

[pyro]

Originally posted by zachzach
php is far inferior to aspYou make statements like these with nothing to back it up with... sad...

[AdamBrill]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
Two) PHP has far more major ][D//493 compared to ASP/ASP.Net :D ][D//493????

Is that what happens when you bang your head on the keyboard? :confused:

[Paul Jr]

Heh, made a little type there, but...
][D//|\|493 = Pwnage = Ownage

:D

[AdamBrill]

BTW, I'm wondering if anyone could give me a list of stuff that ASP .NET does that PHP can't. The only other reasons that ASP .NET could be superior is if it were faster(which it's not, that I've heard of anyway) or if it were easier.

Now, I do admit that ASP .NET would be easier if you used all of their pre-built add-ins. Unfortunately, the code so totally sucks that they can't be used... In my opinion, Microsoft really blew it on the ASP .NET pre-built stuff. I think they took the code generator right out of Frontpage. ;) Also, even if you didn't care about the code it generated, much of it is JS dependant. :rolleyes:

Reasons not to use ASP .NET:

1. It supports the use of non-valid code, since the generated code is far from valid.

2. Much of the generated code is JS dependant.

3. It uses VB style code(which is a plus for some, a minus for others, but, IMO, more people know the C style than the VB style).

4. PHP is free to download, install, and run on any server that you choose.

5. PHP runs on almost every OS.

I'd like to see another such list listing the reasons not to use PHP. Maybe we could change this thread into one that actually discussed the advantages/disadvantages of each, since it really doesn't help anything hearing people say that "php is far inferior to asp", "asp:is better", etc.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by AdamBrill
BTW, I'm wondering if anyone could give me a list of stuff that ASP .NET does that PHP can't. The only other reasons that ASP .NET could be superior is if it were faster(which it's not, that I've heard of anyway) or if it were easier.

Now, I do admit that ASP .NET would be easier if you used all of their pre-built add-ins. Unfortunately, the code so totally sucks that they can't be used... In my opinion, Microsoft really blew it on the ASP .NET pre-built stuff. I think they took the code generator right out of Frontpage. ;) Also, even if you didn't care about the code it generated, much of it is JS dependant. :rolleyes:

Reasons not to use ASP .NET:

1. It supports the use of non-valid code, since the generated code is far from valid.

2. Much of the generated code is JS dependant.

3. It uses VB style code(which is a plus for some, a minus for others, but, IMO, more people know the C style than the VB style).

4. PHP is free to download, install, and run on any server that you choose.

5. PHP runs on almost every OS.

I'd like to see another such list listing the reasons not to use PHP. Maybe we could change this thread into one that actually discussed the advantages/disadvantages of each, since it really doesn't help anything hearing people say that "php is far inferior to asp", "asp:is better", etc. ASP.NET does not have to genoriatie invalid code. It just depends on how you use it. If you use the straight up required feild validators it might, and if you use viewstate it might, but those are conveiniance things that can make for a little less scripting, the viewstate is simply there to store lots of variables so that less codeing is needed and that it would not have to go back to the data base makeing the site run faster. ASP.NET is object oriented and can uses classes and other things over and over. ASP.NET also have application wide variables, and it is a very powerful tool especially when you consider xml webservices. ASP.NET also free, and can be run for free, it is a myth to thing you have to pay to use it, because all you need is the .net framework and a webserver that can run it, there are tons, you are not restricted to iis. Also asp.net does not need to use the vb syntax, it can be done with c#, js, perl, j# there is actually quite an extencive list. It just happens to be that c# and vb are the most widely used. Another new thing ASP.NET brings to the table is mobile controls. Mobile controls are great, they are adaptable to fit all complient mobile devices, such as palm, black berry, cell phones, pocket pcs, and so on and so fourth.
Also is php and asp are comperable speed wise then ASP.NET would have to run faster because ASP.NET blows away ASP classic in speed, and JSP (obviously :rolleyes: ) and many other technologies in speed. Back to the money thing, sql server might be very costly to licence but msde is free (I believe, if not it is practically free). But ASP.NET as you said will not run from an operating system that is not NT based. So you can't run it from a unix server.... Oh well, you got me there. But ASP.NET runs very well off of NT, windows NT is almost ideal for a server in some ways because it can do multible things at once, it can tend to users better that way. I do not have much experience with linux or unix servers though so I cannot make a comparison there. ASP.NET can be very powerful if it is in the right hands, if it is used by someone who knows where the server could cough up a hareball in the source code etc. If the server creates something that causes the validator to choke it is usually one of these two from what I have seen: language="javascript" and no type="text/javascript" in validators, solution, write an if statement to check the text box rather then useing a validator, gets rid of the java script dependents. The form id: having __ctl10 or something is invalid, so you need to manually change that by specifying an id. Its no big deal though, I do not think that having an id with a _ or two __ hurts anything, I think that is just some random standard there that was put inplace on the fly...

[AdamBrill]

1. [T]he viewstate is simply there to store lots of variables so that less codeing is needed and that it would not have to go back to the data base makeing the site run faster.

2. ASP.NET is object oriented and can uses classes and other things over and over.

3. ASP.NET also have application wide variables, and it is a very powerful tool especially when you consider xml webservices.

4. ASP.NET also free, and can be run for free, it is a myth to thing you have to pay to use it, because all you need is the .net framework and a webserver that can run it, there are tons, you are not restricted to iis.

5. Also asp.net does not need to use the vb syntax, it can be done with c#, js, perl, j# there is actually quite an extencive list.

6. Another new thing ASP.NET brings to the table is mobile controls. Mobile controls are great, they are adaptable to fit all complient mobile devices, such as palm, black berry, cell phones, pocket pcs, and so on and so fourth.

Well, I had to separate it out into a list since you didn't. :p Let me know if I did a bad job. ;)

And my reply...

1. I do believe this is what generates the code that is so horrible, which makes it not a positive, but a negative point(at least in my opinion).

2. ASP .NET is object-oriented, which is one valid point.

3. While I've never used it, PHP also has XML support. I don't know how good, since, like I said, I haven't used it. :) As for the "application wide variables," I'm not aware of what those are, but I can't think of anything that they could be that you couldn't do with PHP...

4. But, I do believe(although I could be wrong), it is still limited to Windows(which, I do admit, is an extremely high percentage of the computers out there).

5. Ah, yes, I forgot. ;) I'm not sure I would call that a benefit, though, since it could easily become confusing for beginners to tell which language is being used(thus not knowing how to edit the script). :)

6. I'm not sure of what this even is. ;) Could you give me an explanation?

[PeOfEo]

Like I tried to say the code asp.net genorates is perfectly fine, its the code the shortcuts genorate that might cause problems, by just using an ifstatement instead of feild validators, by just doing the paging by had, and so on you get valid code but it is just a bit more work (But still it is justified and it is simple code so its not that big of a deal). Application wide variables are varaibles that go through your application lol. Here is a more logical example, you can have multiple session working together to do things like on session start you would add too a application wide variable and that can be accessed anywhere in the application (the whole virtual directory) and coughed back up in a simple statement. That is one example, thats how my active users script works. It can be used for other things too though. Yes the being limited to windows is stinky... but if its for personal use and you run a computer from home its still free for you because odds are you have windows xp. About the languages, you specify it at the top of a script and the default is vb. The mobile controls, they are just plain sexy, it lets you make websites for cellphone wireless internet and palms etc, but the thing is, this is possible with other technologies but the asp.net mobile controls adapt and output code that works with all of these devices and adapts for their resolutions. It just saves you from having to figure out what the user is on and then making 5 different pages, it is all done for you. It is very handy and is being used quite a lot.

[AdamBrill]

So, in summary, here is a simple list:

1. I don't know of anything that can be made in ASP/ASP.NET that can't be in PHP, and I'm sure that's true vice versa.

2. I haven't seen any benchmarking tests between ASP.NET and PHP, but they are both fast enough that speed is not a big factor. ASP.NET is supposedly extremely fast, and PHP is currently running Yahoo!, so that says it is fast enough. ;)

3. "It's easier to use" is not a valid argument for either side, since which one is "easier" is mostly a preference.

Basically they both have their own minor advantages/disadvantages, but what it all boils down to is this: some people like ASP/ASP.NET, some people like PHP.

I'm hoping that from this people can see that neither one has a real advantage over the other, and that it is pointless to say stuff like:
php is far inferior to asp
php does not have anything even LIKE application wide vars
php is so totaly screwy its SCREWY!HAHA!I'm so smart

asp:is bettersince, as we have seen, it is more of a preference than one really being superior to the other.

Maybe next time this subject comes up, we can just start out by saying that it is mostly a preference, rather than having to have this same argument every single time. ;) Or, better yet, we could just give the *actual* benefits to each and let each user decide for himself. :)

[PeOfEo]

we have had this disgussian a lot of times already lol. I actually do not believe anyone should go into asp classic these days though, because asp.net actually is far superior to asp. The onyl reason they made it its own thing and not an expantion was because it acts very similar sometimes but is radically difficult in other ways, like the whole oo thing etc. It is new enough that old scripts would not run if you had this new asp on the same server, so they gave it its own format so the two can run independently. Also people do not want to recode their pages if the old stuff cant work with the new stuff. But to start using asp not would be a bit foolish because asp.net out performs asp classic in almost every category.

[zachzach]

how can you learn asp.net if you don't learn ASP?Lol.Basicly your learning ASP with more stuff...application wide variables are like variables that when you change them, they change on everybodys browser permanently, not just on you browser on your page until you close it. With PHP to do something like that you would have to write a text file and rewrite it...or something. Pyro probably knows a better way, since I just started PHP.

[PeOfEo]

I learned asp.net then learned some asp. asp.net outperforms asp all over the place. It was an obvious choice which to learn why learn the older and les spowerful of the two. Application wide variables do not change like you say perminanly... they are set until the application ends. Which is not perminiant but rather an application can last several hours until something happens to cause the application to reset.

[zachzach]

the applications i use do not reset...there more like using them as cookies lol

[PeOfEo]

Mine reset maybe every 3 to 4 days, thats on the hosted server. The ones on my box last at most 24 hours cos I turn my comp off when I am not home, but I leave it on all night. I use sessions like cookies, I set the session lengths real long to store logins.