Which language to use?

[JustKIDn]

Hi All,

I am thinking of developing a program for someone.

They already have a PC that I can put it on. (it probably has windows on it)

Rather than create a GUI interface for it , I thought I might use the browser to display the data.

I'm thinking of using SQLite for the database, because it's not server based and doesn't require database management.

But as I think about a language. I would like to use something that doesn't require installing a web server like Apache. Because the PC could be used for other tasks.

The PC isn't networked, and never will be. And there is a possibility that they may want to roll out copies of this program to other NON-Networked PC's.

I'd rather not do it with VB. I would rather do it with a scripting lang.

I do really like PHP and Perl but they both require a web server. I think I heard that you can use Javascript to access a database, but I can't find anything on it and sense JS is a client side script, I think it doesn't need a webserver.

Did I miss anything?
Any ideas?

Thanks.

[Khalid Ali]

JavaScript can access a database ,but for that to work you will need to rung iPlanet(netscape) server.

To run something linked to a db standalone without using server side you will have to use Java,VB or C/C++

[PeOfEo]

for the sure ease of use I would go with vb. Its all gui, and it is programming, it has loops, ifs, try catch, case, and just about any other statement you can think of so I do not know why you do not think it is programming. But if you want it to run fast c++ is the fastest.

[eclectic30]

PeOfEo is right, you need a tool that can conver your application to HTML if that's what you want. VB and Delphi are the two tools that I know of, Oh and JBuilder. Delphi and JBuilder are both made by Borland. Delphi requires Pascal knowledge and JBuilder requires Java knowledge

[PeOfEo]

I am learning java right now. I guess its just a prefereance thing, but I am really beginning to hate java. It just seems to run so slow :rolleyes: Colledge board switched ap compsci from c++ to java last year

[eclectic30]

You are not alone. But you see, we have to go with the wind sometimes. Our children will wonder why we did certain things that are obviousely unnecessary.

And when you ask us why, we simply say it is "the standard."

[PeOfEo]

I dono, I think c++ is just as versitile as java. I have not seen c++ with any cross platform problems. I don't even think the market is moving to java that much. So why is there any move at all? Java is unicode and c++ is ascii, all that means to me is with java I get a whole bunch of characters I will not be using any time soon and it will run slower. What does java have that c++ doesnt offer? Maybe I just have no reaserched this topic enough, but I dono.

[JustKIDn]

I never tried writing any java. But I've never seen a java program I liked. (too slooow) I have no desire to try java.

C and C++ are just too big and clunky.

... so I do not know why you do not think it is programming.

Reread my post. I didn't say VB isn't a programming language. (I think you were confused by another post I read here)

There's a couple of reasons I would rather not use VB; It's M$ for one and it compiles to an .exe. Something like Perl or PHP doesn't need to be compiled as an .exe. So if I need to make any modifications on the fly, I'd have to install VB to make changes and that wouldn't make bill very happy.

I'm not sure what you mean about converting application to HTML.
I don't need to convert it if I use PHP.

I was just looking for other options than the obvious ones I had thought of. It sounds like you guys didn't have any new ideas either.

Maybe I'll have to get a web server installed. Are there any with a small footprint? I like Apache, but I don't need that much power for this.

Thanks, keep thinking of better ideas for me, o.k?

[PeOfEo]

PHP cannot make applications. It is web programming basically, not application. You refuse to use vb because it is ms? You obviosuly do not even have a reason to hate them. C++ was made by microsoft too. Java is slow in my opinion but it is one of the only pheasable choices that isnt ms. You could also use pascal or python or something but C++ is probably the most used language out there as far as programming goes, application level. C++, Java, and Php share a similar syntax. You are going to need a gui interface or a prompt for what you are trying to do, or you are going to need a webserver. It cannot be done with javascirpt, client side vbscript, or dhtml. It is not possible. You could possibly make an applet but you would need it with a server side language which requires a webserver. Just get vb and use it lol. It is very easy to use, I mean it is the best thing out there for entry level programming. Data bases are very simple, incert it, then type in the path and your done.

[Jeff Mott]

PHP cannot make applications. It is web programming basically, not applicationWhat is with all the fuss lately about insignificant details such as this? And are you even truly aware of the definition of what an application is to validate your statement?C++ was made by microsoft tooC++ was made by Bjarne Stroustrup at Bell Labs.Java is slow in my opinionIt is actually well documented that Java is slower than C++. The designers of Java sacrificed speed for a greater ease of programming, debugging, and porting. (more details (http://www.disordered.org/Java-QA.html#Java-2))I am thinking of developing a program for someone. Rather than create a GUI interface for it , I thought I might use the browser to display the data. But as I think about a language. I would like to use something that doesn't require installing a web serverAnything that runs client-side probably won't be capable of doing what you need it to. Anything that runs server-side will require a Web server. Conclusion: the WWW is not an all purpose app builder. It was designed to make it easier to browse documents. If you need to build an application then Web servers and Web browsers are not the solution.Rather than create a GUI interface for itThere are tools for probably nearly every language to design a GUI by drag and drop. It would be no more difficult to build a GUI than it would to build an HTML document.

[PeOfEo]

Well this person was looking for one that will run on their comp, w/ out a server. All I have to say Is I think vb would be the easiest to pick up for non estencive use, but rather basic use. VB is not portable, but was more originally intended to be a gui tool for more powerful langauges like c and c++ but if you are running windows and it is for personal use it will do just fine. Infact vb is often used because it is a quick way to read and write data into data bases. It is relativly little code in comparison to other scripting, due to the fact that vb has a graphical interface designed for ease and speed of use. About the drag and drop gui thing you mentioned, know where I can find one for java? If I have to code mindless aps for school, might as well save myself some time on the interface.

[JustKIDn]

Jeff,

Thank you for your comments. They are appreciated and mostly correct with one exception;

If you need to build an application then Web servers and Web browsers are not the solution.

There are a number of large applications designed around Web servers and Web browsers. Oracle applications comes to mind.

I already have a 'program', 'application', 'set of scripts' I have written for my own use. Which is similar to what I was looking for advice on. So I know it works. I was just wondering if there was anyone who knew of another way to do the same thing without a web server.
Mine is run using the LAMP. (Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP) on one of my Linux servers.

Jeff, I think maybe you should be the moderator and put pe in his place.

pe,

Apparently you like M$. That's o.k. I did too when I was younger. I do have VB and can write apps with it when I choose to.

One language will not fit every need. This is why I try to find the right fit for every need. For another client and another need, VB might be the perfect fit. In this case VB does NOT fit.

This is why I came to a forum with a name like Web Developer. Because I want to fill this need with a browser interface.

I don't know what kind of chip you are carrying around. It looks like you're looking for arguments all over this forum. If I was a kid that lived around you, I'd take you out back and ...

You know I came to this forum looking for advice and some good suggestions.

I didn't come looking for a fight. If this forum is just run by a bunch of snotty nosed kids. Then I guess I'm not going to get much 'good advice' here. So maybe I will have to find it elsewhere.

Perhaps this forum isn't run by a bunch of snotty nose kids. If this is true then maybe a REAL moderator might step up and offer an apology.
Maybe even BAN kids like pe!

[Jeff Mott]

Actually PeOfEo is moderator of the ASP section. Note that comments such as Microsoft = Bad are very volatile. They have a way of quickly moving a thread in the wrong direction and should be avoided (except for threads that exists specifically for discussing that topic). It would have been better to politely state that VB doesn't fit your needs for this project and move on.

[Jeff Mott]

In any case, if you wanted to avoid a Web server then your program (whatever the language) could write the HTML to a file, and then inform the user that they will have to open that file once the program has completed. Otherwise you will need a Web server.

[JustKIDn]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for that. And you're right. However, I didn't actually say "Microsoft = Bad" I only said "It's M$". Which could mean a lot of things, but in this case, it really meant; I'm looking for an Open Source solution. (free)

Anyway, I think I will have to go with a web server. And I think I found one called; 'BadBlue'.

"BadBlue is a tiny, full-blown web server, which runs PHP, Perl and other CGI/ISAPI extensions. BadBlue is designed for fast configuration. And it's so tiny, you can carry it around on a floppy disk!"

http://www.badblue.com/down.htm

BadBlue works with PHP and PHP works with SQLite. (so I won't need to install MySQL)

So it might workout o.k. It's just a slightly different path than I started down.

This thread just started a fact finding mission for me. And although I didn't get all the info I hoped for, I think I got the info I suspected.

Thanks Jeff!

____________
JustKIDn

[eclectic30]

I am sorry if I missunderstood what you were asking for, but here is another suggestion.

Take a look at AstroMark, it builds applications with full GUI and no exe. It can run on a web server computer as well as on a user desk top or LAN. It connects to several database types. But you may be using Pascal until they release the VB and C#. versions next year. www.astromark.com

All I know is microsoft is good for the economy. Gosh one can make a living just critisizing the campany. Not that anyone has done so here, by the way.

[JustKIDn]

eclectic,

Thanks for the suggestions but it appears that Astromark also needs a webserver. It's also not an Open Source product.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by Jeff Mott
Actually PeOfEo is moderator of the ASP section. Note that comments such as Microsoft = Bad are very volatile. They have a way of quickly moving a thread in the wrong direction and should be avoided (except for threads that exists specifically for discussing that topic). It would have been better to politely state that VB doesn't fit your needs for this project and move on. :P No one around hear sticks up for them, sometimes I feel I just need to jump in for the under dog.

[JustKIDn]

Now I'm confused,
:P No one around hear sticks up for them, sometimes I feel I just need to jump in for the under dog.
If you're talking about Microsoft. They're the BIG DOG, not the Under dog

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by JustKIDn
Now I'm confused,

If you're talking about Microsoft. They're the BIG DOG, not the Under dog
Yeah, the big, ugly, slobbery, bad dog who craps all over the lawn :D.

[PeOfEo]

its the under dog here :( You all hate ms, they may be big, but it still has feelings :rolleyes:. You never gave poor ms a chance, ms is a good corperation, it means well. Hostile corperate take overs are just a fackt in the business world.