I love Microsoft

[jeff_archer7]

Microsoft Rules baby!!!!!

[PeOfEo]

RIGHT ON BROTHER!

[Paul Jr]

Heheh, you guys are asking for it :D.

[jeff_archer7]

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF Microsoft BASHING>>>>>

MICROSOFT DO A GREAT JOB BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeOfEo]

lol. If we can get enough pro msers togehter we could have a .net .party!

[pyro]

I thought we already had a currently running thread (http://forums.webdeveloper.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23799) discussing this...

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by pyro
I thought we already had a currently running thread (http://forums.webdeveloper.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23799) discussing this... But this thread is filled with so much more love :D

[Dark Dragon]

Hello Jeff :)

Just because some of us do not like MS products doesn't mean we are "bashing" them.

Personally I dislike MS because they are very intrusive, destroy competition and have addmitted quite readily on several occasions that they knew their newest versions of Windows had glitches, some of which were major, yet they still released it for sale.

I have Microsoft Word and for the most part it works okay if all I am going to do is make a plain text document like a resume. However if I want to add a graphic, alter text, insert bullets I have to sift through many menus and sub menus to get what I want.

And by the time I get what I wanted, I have already forgotten what it was I wanted to do in the first place!

However I will give MS word 2003 credit, at least they have one of those "helpers" that can get an answer for you if you type it in...so that is nice.

Because MS Word file format is so widely used I guess that is a plus...sort of.

No offenses Jeff but I am sick of seeing Microsoft products being practically forced on me and not having any choice in the selecion of manufacturers. Believe it or not I prefer Corel Wordperfect and Macromedia Dreamwever to MS Word and MS Frontpage.

If you like programs like Frontpage then that means you are much smarter than I am if you can utilize it with ease.

Anyways, I have little againts Microsoft..I just want to have a good variety of manufacturers readily available to choose from..I don't like this "It's either Microsoft or nothing!" kind of attitude retailers and MS have adopted.

Laters :D

[PeOfEo]

word is really a program that does not stand out as being that great. I do not have a problem with it but I always thought of word perfect a little more higly. But I do not type papers enough to really care that much. But if you want to really see some good ms stuff you have to get into their sql server, w2k3, and .net studio products. Thats where they did nicely. IIS5 sucks security wise, but IIS6 which is used in w2k3 seems to be much more stable and secure (not that iis5 could not be somewhat comperable depending on how the administrater has it setup and what its doing). So you hate ms but have only used word? MS does lowball products, they take over other companies, and lots of other things. So does GE, they are huge, I believe the worlds largest company but I could be mistaken. They are a conglomerate that does everything from light bulbles to jet engines. But I do not hear anyone slamming them for tactics they have used to get to where they are in the past. Corperate takeover is a fact of life, and if you want your company to be on top you have to do things like that. I can understand you hating ms if you worked for a company that went bankrupt because of them, but otherwise I do not see how its that big of a deal. Microsoft does not even charge much for products unless you are making money off of them and useing them for commercial use. Thats why there is xp pro and xp corp, computer makers like dell and hp put them on your comp when you get it and it does not cost that much more when it is done this way. Thats just my 2c on some business ethics.

[jeff_archer7]

Originally posted by Dark Dragon
No offenses Jeff but I am sick of seeing Microsoft products being practically forced on me and not having any choice in the selecion of manufacturers. Believe it or not I prefer Corel Wordperfect and Macromedia Dreamwever to MS Word and MS Frontpage.
:D

Whatever Dragon Boy

I use Dreamweaver myself.... yes corel is better..... Thats not my point...... all this thread was about is giving DUE credit to a great company with a truly VISIONRY leader.... yeah the product needs work but DON"T WE ALL...... lol baby.... Microsoft is used by 90% of all PC users world wide...... Microsoft RULES BABY!!!!!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by pyro
I thought we already had a currently running thread discussing this...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SO!!!

[pyro]

Originally posted by jeff_archer7
...all this thread was about is giving DUE credit to a great company with a truly VISIONRY leader.... What's so "visionary" about seeing what someone else has created, and ripping off the idea? Time and time again, Microsoft has used unethical corprate practices to get to the top (and stay at the top)... I can never understand it when people say that M$ has "revolutionized" the computing world. What? I think not! Perhaps in your mind, it is M$ who popularized it, but that's what happens when they've cornered 90% of the market. Competition drives down prices, while keeping product quality higher. It is a good thing. Seriously, it blows my mind when people sing Microsofts praises, like M$ is the god of the computer world.

[PeOfEo]

BILL GATES + THE MS BOARD ARE ECONOMIC EIGNSTEINS, YEA!

[TomDenver]

EIGNSTEINS

This reminds me of a quote from former NFL quarterback Joe Theisman:

"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -- Joe Theisman

[PeOfEo]

lol, that was spontaneous. Like I was saying earlier, in 2 different threads. MS might not have been original with their ideas and some might consider their tactics to be underhanded. But the end result is they are offering some good products, and for that the deserve some credit. I consider mssql server, asp.net and w2k3 to be good products btw. Someone is going to march in here and dispute it. Such is life.

[jeff_archer7]

PeOfEo...... I like you

[PeOfEo]

who doesnt? (That is a rhetorical question, But if you have a burning desire to answer go ahead... and hurt my feelings :( )

[jeff_archer7]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
who doesnt? (That is a rhetorical question, But if you have a burning desire to answer go ahead... and hurt my feelings :( )

LOL :cool:

[PeOfEo]

people can be open about not likeing me... I hold no real power, but don't cross pete. If you do you might 'disappear' :D

[EDR]

Originally posted by pyro
What's so "visionary" about seeing what someone else has created, and ripping off the idea? Time and time again, Microsoft has used unethical corprate practices to get to the top (and stay at the top)...
IMHO that's the general consensus based on not so true fact that needs to end.

No person in this world every created a 100% truly unique idea. They were always inspired by some previous source or combinations of previous sources to make it their own.

When enhancements are made or improvements are made, it benefits everyone, just as MS has added benefits to the computer world.

Jimi Hendrix was the first true rocker, but then Eddie Van Halen came around. Even Jimi got influence from the other true first rocker, Chuck Berry, and other pre-existing blues players. Aretha Franklin (was and still is) the badest, then there's Whitney and Mariah Carey - both inspired by her.

Did every car maker in the world, including Mercedes, steal from Ford and the Model A (or the Model T)? Did every airplane builder steal from the Wright brothers? Yes, they all did. Where did the Wright brothers get their idea to fly? From birds. Where did Henry Ford get the idea to create a car? From covered wagons ... "let's put an engine in it and get rid of horses."

C'mon people, IBM screwed up for "giving" DOS to MS, and Steve Jobs was dumb for showing off his initial window-style OS to Gates, in person. Bill was smart and recognized opportunity - nothing wrong with that. Sounds like people are more jealous or influenced by popular opinion than what are the facts.

If MS had really "stole" so many things, copyright, trademark, patent and other laws would have already shut MS down - period. Even though they lost some minor battles in the past few years, they settled with the government on the majority, because even the anti-trust case was week. As I mentioned in that "other" thread, and agreed with another poster, it all comes down to marketing prowess, product quality and many others factors as outlined.

I'm tired of people saying that "Microsoft stole" from so-and-so. Every artist, musician, creator, engineer, or other "creator" has indirectly "stolen" ideas or as people like to cover their ass in a more diplomatic fashion, "have been inspired by pre-existing concepts."

Let it go. Microsoft rocks, has done a great job, and has only added to, and created our incredible computer society. I would bet big dollars, that without MS, our computer age would be far more barbaric than it is, and we'd still be in the Commodore or Tandy 2000 age.

Give some respect (or props) where it's due.

My2C. EDR

[PeOfEo]

Like the rock ellusion :P. So where do tears for fears and pink floyd fit into it. :D . Whats all that stuff about marria carry though :confused:

[James L.]

Microsoft revolutionized the computer world the same way McDonalds revolutionized healthy eating..... their products are bad for you, but people keep using them!

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by James L.
Microsoft revolutionized the computer world the same way McDonalds revolutionized healthy eating..... their products are bad for you, but people keep using them! Explain to me how w2k3, sql server, .net studio, visual studio, exchange server, advanced server, w2k server, msde, and a load of their other products are bad for you? How would you know if you never used it. I have used all of those products I mentioned, I can say they are very powerful and very well done and certainly not bad for a developer :rolleyes: . MS is more like subway, with proper exercise it can help your company get in shape :D

[EDR]

Originally posted by James L.
Microsoft revolutionized the computer world the same way McDonalds revolutionized healthy eating..... their products are bad for you, but people keep using them!
OR ... Microsoft revolutionized the computer world the same way Honda revolutionized the auto world. Honda is not the "original", it's not "the best", it's not the "most expensive", and it certainly has its minor flaws (as does MS products). All in all, however, later version Hondas (like later MS OS's - XP, W2k, W2003server, etc.) have been determined to be very reliable, very well priced, and you get a great deal for the money you spend. Like MS, and because of that, there are more Hondas (Accords, Civics and Preludes) on the road, as a whole, than any other car.

Just like everything else, Honda got "inspiration" from many other car companies, including Toyota, and other competitors. Honda (like Bill Gates) was able to take all of that information, competition, and data, and put a package together that beat the competition. It's like all the MS bashers are sore losers.

[James L.]

Do a search on Microsoft, and then Honda. Look at the number of trademark infringement, anti-trust, monopoly related, etc lawsuits Microsoft has, and currently is, going through.... then do the same for Honda.

If you can find even 1/4 of the number of lawsuits against Honda on the scale they are being/have been done against M$ I will stand corrected.

I have said before, and I will say it again, M$ products are ok (except IE), but they aren't amazing. Other products are just as good, or even superior, but because of the situation that currently stands with the M$ monopoly these other products aren't seeing the light the way they deserve. What scares me is the way people blindly pay into that monopoly, and think because M$ outsells everyone they have the best products (and PeOfEo, your arguements are usually quite cohesive, so don't jump on me right away about the whole blindly comment).... to stay with our car analogy, Hyundai far outsells BMW, but who has the better product?

Now, I must say PeOfEo, I loved your subway analogy! Don't agree with it, but loved it. I instantly drew an image of Jarod and Bill, side by side, eating subs... lol!

[EDR]

Originally posted by James L.
Do a search on Microsoft, and then Honda. Look at the number of trademark infringement, anti-trust, monopoly related, etc lawsuits Microsoft has, and currently is, going through.... then do the same for Honda.

If you can find even 1/4 of the number of lawsuits against Honda on the scale they are being/have been done against M$ I will stand corrected.

James, have you actually done such a search and compiled the data? I bet money you haven't. You should do something before suggesting it. The only "trademark infringement" I'm aware of, was in 2000 regarding Digital Divas, which was a screw up and resolved."

In reality, the current trademark infringement is being committed against Microsoft. As you know, Microsoft is trying to stop Lindows from being released (runs Linux and Windows) as it "confuses" the consumer. I would say so. As a non-biased consumer, "Lindows" is far too close to "Windows" and would certainly be confusing. For the people behind this product to claim they are "playing fair" is B.S. and we all know it.

And, to say that NetScape, Apple and other companies are saints with rings of light over their heads is crap. ANY successfull company "plays the game" to stay in business. Microsoft just happens to have played it better. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and it's all about survival. If Netscape or Sun Micro Systems "could have" captured 90% of the market share, they would have in a heart beat without blinking. To suggest otherwise, is ridiculous. Once again, I refer to my comments about jealousy and not researching something in detail, but rather relying on general mass opinion (not good) to make one's conclusions.

[James L.]

EDR,

You chastise me for not having done my research (in your opinion anyway), yet you know nothing about me. How is it you have decided what I have or haven't done, when you don't know me, don't know my occupation, don't know my business, yet without knowing me you have made up your mind about what I have or haven't done, all the while chastising me for making up my mind about M$ without the facts.

...how hipocritical can you be?

On the lines of irony, M$ is currently trying to stop a company from putting out a product which is based on technology that M$ stole/copied in the first place. Why is it o.k. for M$ to do it, but not for others?

I vote for this thread to be locked, as it is painfully obvious that no pleasant verdict is going to be reached and surely we have better things to do with our time!

[EDR]

Originally posted by James L.
all the while chastising me for making up my mind about M$ without the facts.

...how hipocritical can you be?



James, let's tone it down! :) No malice towards you at all. This is an open thread, and to close it seems inappropriate, when it's an "I love MS" thread. Perhaps you can continue to bash on the "other" thread, where your opinions are welcome. Why you are bashing on this thread perhaps means maybe you should be locked out of this thread, not closing it altogether. Again, no malice intended. :cool:

While you are correct that I do not know you, you avoided whether you have done the research you "preached" about, or not, which speaks for itself, and indirectly answers my question. One is only hypocrytical when they preach one thing and do another. I at least did the searches you mentioned this morning and found out about Divas and Lindows before making my comments.

And, don't forget, I supported you and your opinion, and complimented you in the "other" thread regarding marketing. You were correct, and I always provide credit where it's due. In that other thread, you also said "flame away" to everyone else, and came into that thread with a great demeanor, but your feelings and "flaming" has totally changed.

Let's agree to disagree on this particular issue. :)

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by James L.
EDR,

You chastise me for not having done my research (in your opinion anyway), yet you know nothing about me. How is it you have decided what I have or haven't done, when you don't know me, don't know my occupation, don't know my business, yet without knowing me you have made up your mind about what I have or haven't done, all the while chastising me for making up my mind about M$ without the facts.

...how hipocritical can you be?

On the lines of irony, M$ is currently trying to stop a company from putting out a product which is based on technology that M$ stole/copied in the first place. Why is it o.k. for M$ to do it, but not for others?

I vote for this thread to be locked, as it is painfully obvious that no pleasant verdict is going to be reached and surely we have better things to do with our time! You havenot done reaserch. You have not used any ms products but word ie and xp I bet. When have you used sql server, when have you used w2k3, when have you used any of their other products. So how can you say things about their products being crappy?

[Sux0rZh@jc0rz]

Originally posted by EDR
OR ... Microsoft revolutionized the computer world the same way Honda revolutionized the auto world. Honda is not the "original", it's not "the best", it's not the "most expensive", and it certainly has its minor flaws (as does MS products). All in all, however, later version Hondas (like later MS OS's - XP, W2k, W2003server, etc.) have been determined to be very reliable, very well priced, and you get a great deal for the money you spend. Like MS, and because of that, there are more Hondas (Accords, Civics and Preludes) on the road, as a whole, than any other car.

Just like everything else, Honda got "inspiration" from many other car companies, including Toyota, and other competitors. Honda (like Bill Gates) was able to take all of that information, competition, and data, and put a package together that beat the competition. It's like all the MS bashers are sore losers.

Props to the honda civic. V-tech 03 all tah way!(so long as you slap a good cool air intake on it)

[jeff_archer7]

MICROSOFT RULES BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pyro]

Glad you think that. Since you haven't ever stated why you think they "rule", we don't know. Perhaps you just mean that they "rule" in the market share sence of the word. If so, I doubt anyone will disagree. If, however, you mean by superiority of products, that will probably get debated.

[James L.]

Originally posted by EDR
James, let's tone it down! :) No malice towards you at all. This is an open thread, and to close it seems inappropriate, when it's an "I love MS" thread. Perhaps you can continue to bash on the "other" thread, where your opinions are welcome. Why you are bashing on this thread perhaps means maybe you should be locked out of this thread, not closing it altogether. Again, no malice intended. :cool:

While you are correct that I do not know you, you avoided whether you have done the research you "preached" about, or not, which speaks for itself, and indirectly answers my question. One is only hypocrytical when they preach one thing and do another. I at least did the searches you mentioned this morning and found out about Divas and Lindows before making my comments.

And, don't forget, I supported you and your opinion, and complimented you in the "other" thread regarding marketing. You were correct, and I always provide credit where it's due. In that other thread, you also said "flame away" to everyone else, and came into that thread with a great demeanor, but your feelings and "flaming" has totally changed.

Let's agree to disagree on this particular issue. :)


Well said, and thanks for teaching me the correct spelling of hypocrytical... I knew I had it wrong!

lol

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by jeff_archer7
MICROSOFT RULES BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!! They rule because he said so, and he is a might man of valour. Don't question it.

[Jupac]

MS = $$$$$$$ = Free Asp.net hosting 4 me :)

[pyro]

Open source = No $$ = Free for everyone.

[jeff_archer7]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
They rule because he said so, and he is a mighty man of valour. Don't question it.

He is right man!

[pyro]

:rolleyes:

[jeff_archer7]

Originally posted by pyro
:rolleyes:

LOL..........

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by jeff_archer7
MICROSOFT RULES BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As Pyro said, you haven't yet stated why they rule. Yet you (and all the other M$ sympathizers) have been asking James L. (and other non-M$ sympathizers) why M$ doesn't rule.

So, why exactly does M$ rule? I would like a logical and serious answer to this question.
If you can't give me (or anyone else) a logical and serious answer, then I'm not sure why this thread should be open anymore...

[Khalid Ali]

This thread is just waste of resources,I need some feed back to keep it open or close it.

Thanks

[jeff_archer7]

Ok here it is

I felt that microsoft bashing was a favorite past-time of the average person.... I felt I needed to even up things a little...... Microsoft do a great job, weather or not you like them..... they have awesome marketing and good products..... they may not be the best but they are the most popular..... I like what they do..... I like IE6...... I like WORD....

in short I think THEY ROCK BABY!!!!!!!!

I stand to be corrected though......

as for this thread being a waste of resource..... I disagree...

but you would have to expect that hey :cool:

Microsoft, Love them or Hate them, are here to stay and should be embraced..... They are infinatly better than when they started..... compare 95 to xp...... (95 was not their first product I know ..... it is used as an example..... don't feel the need to correct me)

and moreover I just don't like mac......
so there you have it baby, my two cents
SWINGIN'

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by jeff_archer7
I felt that microsoft bashing was a favorite past-time of the average person.... I felt I needed to even up things a little...... Microsoft do a great job, weather or not you like them..... they have awesome marketing and good products..... they may not be the best but they are the most popular..... I like what they do..... I like IE6...... I like WORD....
So, M$ rules because:

It was getting bashed a lot here
They rule because they are getting bashed?
They do a great job
A good job at...?
They have awesome marketing
What does that have to do with the quality of their products?
They have good products
That's just your opinion, no?
They're the most popular
Just because a company is very popular does not necessarily make them the best, or even any good.
I like what they do... I like IE6... I like WORD...
That's personal preference. They rule because you like their products? Well, I don't like their products, so they don't rule.


Originally posted by jeff_archer7
they are infinatly better than when they started
Once again, that does not necessarily make them the best, or even any good.

I used to suck when I first started building websites, but I am infinitely better now than when I started, that does not mean I am the best, or even any good at all.

[jeff_archer7]

[paul jr...

Dude, of course it is all just my opinion. I can not now, nor ever spaek for everyone else....
I never tried to hid the fact it was MY opinion.....
You just gave yours, I'm entitled to mine.... And I have the right to voice that opinion......

you make out as if I have some mental connection to the befudled masses, with a unique capacity to know all about what they think..... moreover your suggesting I am then withholding this vital information thus keeping you in the dark...........

lol dude

[PeOfEo]

paul, what ms products have you used?

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by jeff_archer7
[paul jr...

Dude, of course it is all just my opinion. I can not now, nor ever spaek for everyone else...
I was refering to the fact that it's only opinion, I was not refering to yours in particular.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
paul, what ms products have you used?
Eh, I run XP Home on my machine, and I've used IE, and... uhm, Notepad? ;)
Seriously, though, that's about it.

But, just to clear things up, any negative comments I have made toward M$ have been proven by others, and admitted by me, to be only opinion and personal preference.

I have thus come to a conclusion that almost no one here can give any real fact why M$ sucks, or does not suck.
If I am wrong, please let me know, it won't be the first, nor the last, time.

[PeOfEo]

You use ie? Humm xp home... You really do not have much experience with other ms products so how can you judge their quality? Tell me what is wrong w/ iis6, It has signifigantly improved its security and stability over older iis versions and runs faster. What is wrong with sql server? It is a very stable data base server and it runs pretty darned fast. What is wrong with asp.net? It is an object oriented server side scripting that offers some strong speeds (Even though it might fall back on java script, you can go around that, I know you would chime in on that Adam ;) ). What is wrong with xp pro? it is much more stable in gameing then xp home. What is wrong with the windows os in general? It is very user friendly. I still do not hold a high reguard for ie or frontpage but other then that I cannot say I think any of ms's products are bad. Some of them have limitations, like access being slow for large data projects (its only designed for small projects of cource, so thats not a biggy). But other then that what is wrong with their products. The reason their prices might be high is because products like sql server, w2k3, advanced server etc are aimed at corperate use, places that will be making signifigant ammounts of money from these products so they can charge high rates for licencing. They have to cover their R&D costs. XP home, aimed at personal use, is actually very cheap. The major comp manufacuters pay next to nothing to put it on their machines.

[EDR]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
So, why exactly does M$ rule? I would like a logical and serious answer to this question.
If you can't give me (or anyone else) a logical and serious answer, then I'm not sure why this thread should be open anymore... [/B]

Paul, no offense or malice towards you either, :) but seriously, man, many of us, including myself spelled out many reasons why Microsoft is on top, in this thread and the other one. If you read my response in the other thread to James L.'s marketing comments, I agreed with him, and expanded with detailed and articulate reasons. I even gave four reasons (1), (2), (3), (4). You were involved in that thread in many posts, perhaps you should go back and re-read many of the "reasons", there are many.

Someone else in this thread also repeatedly stated that sql, w2k, w2k3, XP Pro, IIS6, and .NET do kick everyone's butt out there, and it's true. Maybe only Oracle has a better data base than full blown sql.

Sorry, but you have demonstrated that you are so overly opinionated that you are not even comprehending other people's comments, and that's sad. :(

And the fact that you have only used notepad, Xp home, and IE really gives you no right, whatsoever, to go into detail about why M$ sucks!

I agree that this thread is now a waste of time, if those involved in it can't even review other people's comments with an open mind and honestly give it consideration.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
You use ie? Humm xp home... You really do not have much experience with other ms products so how can you judge their quality? Tell me what is wrong w/ iis6, It has signifigantly improved its security and stability over older iis versions and runs faster. What is wrong with sql server? It is a very stable data base server and it runs pretty darned fast. What is wrong with asp.net? It is an object oriented server side scripting that offers some strong speeds (Even though it might fall back on java script, you can go around that, I know you would chime in on that Adam ;) ). What is wrong with xp pro? it is much more stable in gameing then xp home. What is wrong with the windows os in general? It is very user friendly. I still do not hold a high reguard for ie or frontpage but other then that I cannot say I think any of ms's products are bad. Some of them have limitations, like access being slow for large data projects (its only designed for small projects of cource, so thats not a biggy). But other then that what is wrong with their products. The reason their prices might be high is because products like sql server, w2k3, advanced server etc are aimed at corperate use, places that will be making signifigant ammounts of money from these products so they can charge high rates for licencing. They have to cover their R&D costs. XP home, aimed at personal use, is actually very cheap. The major comp manufacuters pay next to nothing to put it on their machines.
I used to use IE.

In regard to the other things you mentioned, I really couldn't tell you. I don't actually hate/dislike M$, I don't believe I've ever said otherwise. I just prefer not to use IE, which I don't like, I'd rather use FB, which I do like (Again, back to personal preference).

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by EDR
Paul, no offense or malice towards you either, :)
Why do I always get a bad feeling when someone starts a post like that? :p

Originally posted by EDR
Sorry, but you have demonstrated that you are so overly opinionated that you are not even comprehending other people's comments, and that's sad. :(
Mmm, I get that a lot ;).

[pyro]

Originally posted by EDR
Someone else in this thread also repeatedly stated that sql, w2k, w2k3 and .NET do kick everyone's butt out there, and it's true. Maybe only Oracle has a better data base than full blown sql.If you are talking servers (I'm assuming you are), Why is IIS or w2k3 better than Apache? What OS will IIS run on? Now, what OS's will Apache run on?

.NET - you talking ASP.NET? Why is this better than PHP or JSP?

At least you had the decency to say that Oracle is better than M$ SQL... :rolleyes:

I hate to be the one to point this out, but in the internet world (barring browser usage) M$ is not at the top of the pack, either in quality, or use.

[jeff_archer7]

I Jeff Archer Hereby ask this thread be closed.........
I ask this in the capacity of thread starter.....
reason: What started out as a sympathy thread for a great company is now causing too many futile arguments........ Opinion is just that, opinion, regardless of weather or not it is based on fact or feeling.... everyone has a right to theirs and the right to voice it.......

[PeOfEo]

well w2k3 runs iis6 and w2k3 is a stripped nt based os that runs very fast. I did not say it is better then apache, I just said it kicks butt. Don't worrie we are not trashen anything in your php territory here. Pyro asp.net runs much faster then jsp, noticably. Both are object oriented and both are very powerful though. Thats about all asp.net has on jsp. Php runs fast too, but that is for about 50 other threads we have had comparing the too. asp.net is a good technology as far as ease of use and speed are concerned and it is powerful. But you could say the same about php I guess.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by jeff_archer7
Opinion is just that, opinion, regardless of weather or not it is based on fact or feeling.... everyone has a right to theirs and the right to voice it.......
Exactly, it's all opinion.

So why are the M$ bashers getting bashed for bashing M$?!


P.S., I second closing the thread.

[pyro]

I was commenting on EDR's comment that it "kick[s] everyone's butt out there." That is certainly not a true statement.

[PeOfEo]

Well they kick some butt on the internet, they have two server side languages, well maybe 1.5... since asp.net is very different but still shares a lot of asp syntax at times.

[AdamBrill]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
I have thus come to a conclusion that almost no one here can give any real fact why M$ sucks, or does not suck.
If I am wrong, please let me know, it won't be the first, nor the last, time. I'll tell you why they suck. They suck because they have done some very questionable things to become "the one"(such as the Java VM stunt). They suck because their goal is to totally eliminate all competition(and they don't do it by making the best products). Although I have never actually seen proof, their are many case where they supposedly "stole" other companies ideas(which, if it is true, would be another reason why they "suck"). They suck for making products such as FrontPage. ;) They also charge a high price for something that others are offering for free...

And I'll tell you why they *don't* suck. They don't suck because they make some excellent products(such as Windows). They make a good browser(although many people seem to disagree with me there). They have an unbelievable development studio which smashes any others that I have seen. They also are awesome at marketing, which certainly is not their fault.

I also want to state that I do not endorse anything that I have said in this post(:p), but they are the reasons why people like/dislike MS.
Originally posted by EDR
Someone else in this thread also repeatedly stated that sql, w2k, w2k3 and .NET do kick everyone's butt out there, and it's true. Maybe only Oracle has a better data base than full blown sql. I sense that you too are "overly opinionated". :rolleyes:

[pyro]

Originally posted by AdamBrill
I also want to state that I do not endorse anything that I have said in this post(:p)lol That's hilarious... :D

[PeOfEo]

Ahhh sun needs to die lol. I hate java... but that is more of a personal thing. Stupid complier... on a crappy school comp. It runs so slow, then... when it is finished i get 15 errors... it doesnt tell me where they are... then I fix them then I get a run time ahhhhhhhh. Maybe I suck at java, but if computers are so good theses days, cant they just write code for themselves and let me take credit for it?

[EDR]

Originally posted by pyro
If you are talking servers (I'm assuming you are), Why is IIS or w2k3 better than Apache? What OS will IIS run on? Now, what OS's will Apache run on?

.NET - you talking ASP.NET? Why is this better than PHP or JSP?

At least you had the decency to say that Oracle is better than M$ SQL... :rolleyes:

I hate to be the one to point this out, but in the internet world (barring browser usage) M$ is not at the top of the pack, either in quality, or use.
You've raised some great points. However, I'm not talking just about ASP.NET. I used to host on a Unix Server, and do all the Perl, CGI and other stuff. Then we switched to W2k Server. It rocked. Since even then, the Visual Studio.NET Enterprise Architect was released, which is such an extremely powerful and integrated product.

In general (at least in my experience) when one gets into those other companies you mentioned you have to mix and match alot of "independent" softwares and companies, whether free or not.

While you referred to ASP.NET, I'm talking the entire .NET enterprise, which has so many integrated products from servers to SQL, to ASP.NET to C++.NET, C#.NET, J.NET, etc. Like Adobe and Macromedia and "integrated suites", M$ has integrated (especially now with XML) the new office 2003 suite, with Visio, FP, Power Point, server software, sql, and the lot in the .NET framework. It's "compatible", and it's "integrated." When one considers it in that light, it's superior. Even many M$ bashers in these recent threads said while they like Unix or Linux, Windows is more user friendly. Windows XP Pro and W2003 Server are extremely stable and "compatible" with their other products. That goes for some mileage in the comparison charts.

[AdamBrill]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
Maybe I suck at java, but if computers are so good theses days, cant they just write code for themselves and let me take credit for it? If you write something that will do that, then you will be a *very* rich man. ;) You might even be able to take out MS, if your good enough at marketing, that is. :D

[PeOfEo]

I might just let ms steal it if they slide me enough money so I can live comfortably on the money. Maybe Ill let me computer do some programming here and there and Ill take credit for it lol. On second though... bad idea. Ever see the matrix?
Response.enslave(Man Kind)

[EDR]

[i]
I sense that you too are "overly opinionated". :rolleyes: [/B]

Well, we all have opinions, no question. It's what makes the world go round. However, I do my best to consider all points of view and to be reasonable. I agree with many contrary posters (which my posts clearly indicate) I say I'm wrong when someone has failry corrected me, and I disagree when I find something "unreasonable."

I have not seen you demonstrate those same traits. Your tone and my tone are two different writing styles. Your extreme adamance about why M$ sucks and doesn't suck with such authority perhaps means you are "overly".... :D

[pyro]

While I'm sure ASP.NET and w2k3 are very closely integrated, I can say the same for PHP and Apache. Though they are two separate open source software projects, they do run extremely well with each other.

If you are talking the whole .NET suite, then you need to take into consideration the alternatives.
ASP.NET -> PHP, Perl, JSP, or CF (ugh! :p)
C# and C++.NET -> C and C++
J.NET -> Java

[vbKing]

I don't get how some people can sit here with a straight face and give props to MS. Yes, they have made SOME good products (VS 6 and .NET, XP PRO, and a few others), but those aren't even close to outnumbering the downright pieces of crap they have made. I am not against them because of their size, or their takeover strategies. I like Wal-Mart for example, but why? Because they have a everything I need at a very competative price. But in contrast, MS has some of the things I need, but at outrageous prices. Look at Windows XP PRO (UPGRADE) $189.99 vs. MACOSX10.3 $129 (FULL VERSION). You would think that since the sales are so much lower that they would cost about the same or more, wouldn't you? That is the way I see it.

vbKing

[Khalid Ali]

sorry to be an ass here guys,but I see this thread going no wehre..(heck its becoming longer then Lord of the rings:the return of the king).
so am closing it...