Site Evaluation

[The Little Guy]

Can some of you check my site out? The site is a Art site and I want some feedback on feel, look, quality, ect. I am still a rookie at this so keep that in mind the only coding that I used was html because I don't no any other codes. If you have the time could you check out all the links there is only about 10 pages at the most on the site.

If you are an artist and you would like to send some art to the site it would be very helpful.

The Link is Below...

[96turnerri]

hi checked out you site

+
flash menu
content
basis for good site

-
ads
ads
ads
ads
no structure to layout, looks like things are just placed all over the place randomly

[PeOfEo]

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluemoonart.150m.com%2Fbluemoon.html&doctype=%28detect+automatically%29&charset=iso-8859-14+%28Celtic%29&verbose=1
do get into the habit of designing with web standards too. Plus specify an encodeing. Notice I could not validate this using unicode or ascii, I had to use celtic before it would work.

[rhsunderground]

Originally posted by 96turnerri


-
ads
ads
ads
ads
no structure to layout, looks like things are just placed all over the place randomly

you musts needs try to organize the site and ditch some of the ads. it looks like a 3rd grader's collage (no offense.) i recommend netfirms (http://netfrims.com).
they use ftp and simply put an image at the top of the page, so no data is lost unless you use absolute positioning.

best of luck.

[pyro]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
+
flash menu
content
basis for good siteWhat content? There really wasn't much there. Also, what if users do not have the flash plugin installed? How do they navigate?

[PeOfEo]

what if they are like me and do not have a java plugin (lazyness...) or they keep java disabled?

[96turnerri]

i did not say i would use the menu in one of my sites, just that i like it (even tho they didnt make it)

as for content i did not specify a type of content, quantity or quality, now its obviously not quantity as there is nothing there as you stated

[96turnerri]

you have java not install and some people dont have it enabled, but they will know that some features on sites, such as chat will be unavailable through disabling it or not installing it

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
you have java not install and some people dont have it enabled, but they will know that some features on sites, such as chat will be unavailable through disabling it or not installing it
Don't count on it. My Mom hasn't a clue about these things, and if something didn't work, she wouldn't know why, and she'd just get me to explain it to her. So you can't assume that people know some things aren't available to them, because chances are good they won't know what the heck is going on. ;)

[96turnerri]

ok true but at the end of the day you cannot make a site that absolutly any1 can view no matter what there settings (please dont prove me wrong lol), you have to try and make it accesable to as many as you can, so using js, java, flash, css, popups all in one site can be a bad idea, you could do what i would do either write something above it about if java not enabled wont work or even better detect whether it is or not

[rhsunderground]

after seeing the gods of these forums debate endlessly over what COULD go wrong in a website, especially one with javascript, may i suggest something.


***WARNING!!!***
***the following idea may cause some persons to laugh at the thought, but i can almost guarantee that someone will try it***
i'm surprised someone hasn't asked for a code that would detect if javascript has been disabled. could be fun.

[96turnerri]

not really :P

<script type="text/javascript">
document.write("JS Is Enabled");
</script>
<noscript>
JS Is Not Enabled
</noscript>

[rhsunderground]

i start a new thread on this topic. damn, thought i had something there.

[pyro]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
you cannot make a site that absolutly any1 can viewTry a site that used valid, semantic markup, with CSS for layout. It'll read fine in anything that I can think of, especially if some accessibility issues have been taken care of. ;)

[96turnerri]

what if the user has ccs disabled, non complient browser or a custom css sheet, it will read fine yes but not look fine

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
what if the user has ccs disabled, non complient browser or a custom css sheet, it will read fine yes but not look fine So if the user is browing in lynx it still works. Content > beauty. You want it to look good for everyone who can display it, but if someone can't, have a backup for them.

[96turnerri]

ok lets say you can view it on lynx, what about on phones such as nokia 9210?

[pyro]

Yeah, what about that?

[96turnerri]

o i take it its work then o well i know when to stand down. i have been proven wrong :mad:

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
ok lets say you can view it on lynx, what about on phones such as nokia 9210? But I prefer to use mobile controls with asp.net It will just redo all of my stuff depeding on if its a phone, palm pilot, black berry, so on and so fourth.

[rhsunderground]

forgive if i'm wrong, but about 95% of the webpages out there are designed for computers, not cell phones. it is doubtful, though quite possible, that many of TLG's customer's will be surfing his site from their phones. i've seen you guys yell at people for wasting time and space in these forums, and most of what i've seen out of this thread is someone trying to be a pessimist and someone else trying to prove them wrong. maybe i'm wrong.

[spufi]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
So if the user is browing in lynx it still works. Content > beauty. You want it to look good for everyone who can display it, but if someone can't, have a backup for them.

Here's the thing, the poster said the site is going to be used for art which means images. Lynx = no images. I kind of doubt the site would really "work" in Lynx by default.

[96turnerri]

thanks you spufi, i dont see that it would 'work' in a text based browser either, or actually come to think of it a phone, think of the resolution on a phone what 400x150?

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by rhsunderground

i'm surprised someone hasn't asked for a code that would detect if javascript has been disabled. could be fun.

if you have access to ASP, or ASPX, just get the server to ask the browser:


request.browser.javascript


obviously, this returns a boolean.:)

[PhillMc]

It needs work. Here are my suggestions:

1. Find a new WPP.

2. Change the Layout (use of CSS would be good)

3. DO NOT USE A BLACK BACKGOUND! Read through some of the HTML Goodies tutorials, Dr. Burns states on many occations that Black backgrounds are bad, and are rarly ever done right.

4. Dark Text on a Dark Background. This one explains itself :)

I could go further, but the rest of my thoughts are just my opinion. Like, for instance, flash menu; nice effect but not accessible to everyone. You can design a menu just as nice with the use of CSS.

[spufi]

Originally posted by PhillMc
3. DO NOT USE A BLACK BACKGOUND! Read through some of the HTML Goodies tutorials, Dr. Burns states on many occations that Black backgrounds are bad, and are rarly ever done right.

4. Dark Text on a Dark Background. This one explains itself :)

While I agree that it's good advice from HTML Goodies, their site makes baby Jesus cry. ;)

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by spufi
While I agree that it's good advice from HTML Goodies, their site makes baby Jesus cry. ;)

ROFLMFAO!!!!:)

[PeOfEo]

lol thats just wrong! I am sure it cannot be any worse then the whole geocities hosting project.

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
Don't count on it. My Mom hasn't a clue about these things, and if something didn't work, she wouldn't know why, and she'd just get me to explain it to her. So you can't assume that people know some things aren't available to them, because chances are good they won't know what the heck is going on. ;)

i feel your pain, paul.

[Ben Rogers]

Ok. Yeah, these guys brought up a lot of good points, and you should make it a point to REPLY TO A THREAD YOU POSTED!!! I've learned from experience these people love to argue, and love to help, so do what they say, they know what they're doing. trust me, my site looks so much better and i've learned a lot about webdesign since i arrived.

also, i agree that you should use 100% css for layout and looks. don't expect you're site to look good everywhere, not gonna happen. make it valid, modern, and easy on the browser. users of old browsers or bad ones should know the sacrifice they're making beforehand.

Oh, and dude, really get a new host, and don't worry about your layout. Get content first, it makes layout a lot easier when you have more stuff to fill the page with.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by PhillMc
I
3. DO NOT USE A BLACK BACKGOUND! Read through some of the HTML Goodies tutorials, Dr. Burns states on many occations that Black backgrounds are bad, and are rarly ever done right.

4. Dark Text on a Dark Background. This one explains itself :)
I disagree. A black background isn't necessarily bad; it just ends up people who use a black background do so incorrectly, thus giving people the idea that it's bad. :(

Originally posted by spuf
While I agree that it's good advice from HTML Goodies, their site makes baby Jesus cry.
Lmfaowrotfs! That's good. But I am sad to see people say these things. HTML Goodies was an excellent place to learn. That's where I started, and I'm so glad I did. Everything is presented in an understandable, comprehensible way; it's just really outdated. If Mr. Burns would've kept the site current, I'm sure people would be recommending it as much as W3Schools -- which, I'm sad to say, isn't as good as HTML Goodies was, in my opinion.

Originally posted by omega
i feel your pain, paul.
Lol, thanks man. ;)

[Ben Rogers]

yeah, black backgrounds done right look awesome, as long as you have light colored text, and images.

a color tho and deciding on dark or light is even better tho....

[spufi]

At one point HTML Goodies had a forum and that's where I stumbled upon that site. I posted there until the forum was then merged into the forum we have here, so I feel your pain about it being such a crappy place now for info.

[PeOfEo]

paul... why did you take spufi's icon? It is throwing me off here. I look at the icon not the name, I mean I see an Icon (not stare at it, but I just sort of see it) I automatically assume it is who I saw before with it speaking. For example when I see a lil scary face thing going through a hole, I know its pyro, when I see a };-) looken thing I know it is robert. When I see a funny looken Kl thing, I know its vladdy. So on and so fourth. Spufi, who else came from the goodies forum besides you me and I think charles and stefan?

[Ben Rogers]

whoda thunk it.

but yeah, get your own icon, paul! And PeO, you don't think of my crappy peace sign and me? (cry, cry)

[96turnerri]

it is rather crappy now you come to mention it, i think ov u when i see it, i laugh :p

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
whoda thunk it.

but yeah, get your own icon, paul! And PeO, you don't think of my crappy peace sign and me? (cry, cry) you should get a Ω

[Ben Rogers]

And I don't really like the omega sign as an icon, i like mu crappy bodiless-guy giving the peace sign...

too bad i cant find any animation freeware, then i could make some nasty avatars...

[96turnerri]

theres loads of animated gifs progs about

[Ben Rogers]

for free, that i could download.

[96turnerri]

yes heres one only a trial but u can do what you want with it

http://download.com.com/3000-2186-5422267.html

[PhillMc]

I need an avatar, but I havn't as of yet found one that I thought suited me. Any Suggestions?
:(

[Ben Rogers]

u see thats a start, but i doubt ill b able to make all the animations ill ever want in a few weeks or whatever

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by omega
And I don't really like the omega sign as an icon, i like mu crappy bodiless-guy giving the peace sign...

too bad i cant find any animation freeware, then i could make some nasty avatars...

I thought you said you had PS? You can make animated gif's in shop. :)

[Ben Rogers]

i have a diff version of photoshop, it doesn't have image ready.

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by PhillMc
I need an avatar, but I havn't as of yet found one that I thought suited me. Any Suggestions?
:(

um, ok, what are you iinterested in..?

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by omega
i have a diff version of photoshop, it doesn't have image ready.
I didn't check out the link that was posted, but b4 I got PS7 I used GIF Animater, it's shareware, but with no timer on eval. :)

[96turnerri]

its doesnt go long to make an animated gif or if your lazy

http://www.animationfactory.com/

[Ben Rogers]

i wanna make my own, not use some cheap graphics from a site, i want to keep my site looking proffesional. but umm... yeah, i hate dial up, but in about 2 hours that trial you told me about may be mine... lol

[PhillMc]

Binary, Hex, Oct, C#, VB.NET, ASP, CSS (THX to Pyro),HTML 4+.

Basically anything to do with a computer, but those are the specifics.

Oh, yes, cars. I dont mean, normal, everyday cars, I mean cars that destroy todays standards of enginerring. Cars that break the sound barrier standing still, rofl. Did you guys know that Chrysler just built a Supercar prototype that kills of McClarin F1 by 15 HP and 10 MPH? CHRYSLER! lol

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by PhillMc
Binary, Hex, Oct, C#, VB.NET why use asp if you know c# and vb.net, and you do not have vbscript listed :p. Its not really knowing binary hex and octal, its just a conversion from base 2, 8, or 16, to base 10. I drive a cruddy 80s pickup with manual locks windows and mirrors. But it looks cool. Has no air back though (before the days where they had srs in most cars)

[96turnerri]

peo arnt you like 15?, omega, its not that big only bout 10mb thats like 30mins dial up, or 1,20mins for me :D

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
why use asp if you know c# and vb.net, and you do not have vbscript listed :p. Its not really knowing binary hex and octal, its just a conversion from base 2, 8, or 16, to base 10. I drive a cruddy 80s pickup with manual locks windows and mirrors. But it looks cool. Has no air back though (before the days where they had srs in most cars)
vbscript is an understood, lol. If you know Visual Basic 6/Net, then you know vbscript. And, I didn't say I knew C#, I said I'm interested in it, lol. Learning as of now. And, I just find the different systems of numbeing appealing. And, well, when it comes to a car, I drive a 91 Honda that's been in 1 accident and has hit 1 deer (at 60mph).rofl

edit: I meant to place an 'x' behind ASP in the original post :o

[Ben Rogers]

Hm, well you could make an animation of binary code moving, then have it compile to say PhillMC.

and, damn boi you need to get out and do something, watch a movie, play a sprt, turn on the tv. and i'm not dissing geeks, im a geek too but damn (what im really thinking: bastard, i wanna no all of that! javascript confuses me...)

And I don't have a car. But if I could have any car, Dodge Viper, baby :D

and... um peo what r u talking about bases of... what does that have 2 do with binary.?

oh, and u wanna screen shot? an hour 13 left right now... ill email u a shot if u dont beleive me lol

[96turnerri]

you know what binary code is right 1 and 0s, think about it?...

[PhillMc]

binary = based on 2 (01000001)
octidecimal = based on 8
decimal = based on 10
hexidecimal = based on 16

edit:
boi??? I'll be 23 in April, that puts me at about 10 years older than you, lol.

[Ben Rogers]

whatever,,, just.. yeah, i'll ask when im getting into that stuff, ok?

[Ben Rogers]

ok.. but then how could you speak binary?

[96turnerri]

easy 01001110001110111 0111011 01110 01 0110111

[Ben Rogers]

i no how to type 0's and 1's but how do you decipher it, and how do you figure out what to type?

[96turnerri]

heres a quicky lots of resources out on the web

http://www.johnselvia.com/binary/binprime.html

[PhillMc]

Well, you dont really speak binary, you actually have to convert the binary values to decimal (or hex) and then get the ASCII representation of the number

There are 8 bits in 1 byte. Binary is a representation of those bits. Bits can have only 2 values, on or off (1 or 0).
how to read binary:

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1


Add the values. Such as 01000001 = 65 which in ASCII is a capital 'A'. If a bit is on (or 1) add its value to the other bits that are on (or 1). Like my sig, it says "Hail Fellow Binars" (I know it's corny, but I am a geek, lol)

[Sam]

there are only 10 things you need to know about binary, 1's, and 0's
</BadJoke>

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
peo arnt you like 15?, omega, its not that big only bout 10mb thats like 30mins dial up, or 1,20mins for me :D No... and what does anything here have to do with my age? Oh about the car. No... I am 16. Edit, doing binary hex and octal by hand is not that hard... but I fail to see how it is useful in this day and age. I mean I almost never use any of them. If I need a number convirted, wrather then get out paper, I just open windows calculator, put it in scientific, type it in base 10, then select oct bin or hex and it does it for me.

[Ben Rogers]

Um. yeah, too much work... back to... helping phil get a avatar....

[PhillMc]

hmm.

Would it be to 'blah' to use my company logo for an avatar? Are there any rules against that? That's the only reason I havn't so far, thought that there might be rules against it.

[96turnerri]

i dont see y not about using an avatar of company logo or other way round infact lol, 16 omg take it u live in US stupid US laws lol

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
i dont see y not about using an avatar of company logo or other way round infact lol, 16 omg take it u live in US stupid US laws lol
rofl
I mean forum rules, like 'no advetisment' rules or something.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
i dont see y not about using an avatar of company logo or other way round infact lol, 16 omg take it u live in US stupid US laws lol whats the driving -- drinking -- voteing age in the uk? Here is 16, 21, 18.

[Ben Rogers]

ever heard of seperating home and office? and whats wrong with the US laws, turner? where do you live (country)?

[96turnerri]

17-18-18 and im 18 so can do all that, except dont have my license to drive yet havnt tried lol

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
ever heard of seperating home and office? and whats wrong with the US laws, turner? where do you live (country)? he lives in the uk... its in his profile, and below his name right up there. Hahaha... beats being a slave to your parents though. Thats the main thing I do "go to the store and get this, we are out of this could you run over, and while you are at it!" :o

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by omega
ever heard of seperating home and office? and whats wrong with the US laws, turner? where do you live (country)?
Well, I work freelance, so my home is my office :)

[Ben Rogers]

freelance has to be one of the best jobs, no boss, and (hopefully) you make some decent money. and yes, that explains it.

hm... well my parents are pretty cool so ill prob get an ok car and they wont bug me too much. either way my sis is getting hers first so shell have to do all the grunt work, and she even says she'll take me places.. so yeah.

being the youngest is awesome lol.,

[PhillMc]

It can be stressful (as I'm sure Pyro would agree) but nothing beats having your hobby as your job :)

[Ben Rogers]

I see what you mean, deadlines and stuff, right?

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by omega
I see what you mean, deadlines and stuff, right?
you have no idea! When I was writing the Point of Sale app for a few local businesses, it was pure murphy's law. During development I had to resched release b/c: House struck by lightning, fired system. After that I started working on laptop, well, friend screwd up laptop (let's just say I am permantly locked out of it), after that I lost a Hard disk. Finally got it finished, though. After I get this site up, I will be workin on version 2.2. Sure have had a lot of fun with it though :)

[Ben Rogers]

that file that was taking me 2 hours to dl? well my sis makes me get offline, and i figure like ie does itll let me just restart from where i left off when i get back on, but noooo fatal error, and i can probably never get it now, not for a few months anyways... I [removed due to overall insanity, and obsceneity] dial up.!!!!!!!

But thats much worse, getting a fried comp.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by omega
and i figure like ie does itll let me just restart from where i left off when i get back on, but noooo fatal error,
If I understand what you're sayin', google "Download Accelerator Plus", or just "DAP". I used to have that program on my computer. You can pause downloads, and restart ones if you get booted or somethin'. ;)

[PhillMc]

If I read correctly, FireFox has a built in download mgr.

[Ben Rogers]

but, see that involves downloading, which i cant do right now, cuz as it is my sis is b17ch1n' at me again to get off.. and flipping her off only works so many times . ;)

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by PhillMc
If I read correctly, FireFox has a built in download mgr.
I know Firebird has one; I just downloaded Firefox and I haven't installed it yet. I didn't even know about it till today! :eek:

Being the die-hard Firebird fan I am, I feel quite ashamed of that fact. :o

[PhillMc]

lol. PeOfEe says we should call it 'FireFly' because it sounds manlier. I downloaded it b/c I'm downloaded as many browsers I can find to test a site I'm working on. I liked it so much, it's my default now. (IE SUCKS)

[96turnerri]

i use opera which has a built in d/l management systmem, i also have dap7 installed dont ask me why lol, not needed may unistall it

omega - so how old are you?
phil - like your avatar
peo - im glad i dont have a car if i have to do all that, altho i am a fully adult by law so i guess i could tell them where to go lol :p

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by PhillMc
lol. PeOfEe says we should call it 'FireFly' because it sounds manlier. is it not? Lol.

[Paul Jr]

I think it should be an acronym: TBDBOTPBL.

[96turnerri]

TBDBOTPBL??? would be an acronym for what?

[Paul Jr]

The Best Damn Browser On The Planet By Law.

[96turnerri]

that would be opera then, gona change it in the ini to TBDBOTPBL :D

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
that would be opera then, gona change it in the ini to TBDBOTPBL :D bah opera, mozilla offers the same quality that opera charges for. "Buy now and remove this little banner". Plus a downloads menu like that is extreamly annoying.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
that would be opera then, gona change it in the ini to TBDBOTPBL :D
Boy, what have you been smokin'?!

[96turnerri]

my opera doesnt have the ads or banners ;) , i havnt been smoking anything, unless someone has spiked my cigs, i have mozilla, but its screwed up think its conflicting with nn, so i use opera :D

[PhillMc]

Hey, Turner,

Could you do me a favor and post a link to opera's site? As I have said on many posts, I am downloading all browsers I can think of for testing new site using CSS (Thx to Pyro!). It's coming along nicly, but I am still working out cross-browsers probs :)

Oh, and, Thanks about the avatar, it's my company logo. All it is is 3 'M' fasioned into a triangle. I chose the triangle and the 3 'M' b/c the number 3 symbolizies completeness.

[pyro]

It's pretty easy to find/guess: http://www.opera.com/ ;)

I definitly prefer Firefox, though...

[PhillMc]

Alright, smarty! :o lol

[PhillMc]

Originally posted by pyro
It's pretty easy to find/guess: http://www.opera.com/ ;)

I definitly prefer Firefox, though...
I'm definatly going to agree, it seems opera has some of the same display quirks as IE (i.e. counting borders widths against a containers width)

[96turnerri]

its pretty easy to find, LMAO hehe, yeah im not entirely happy with the way opera displays a page, but i like the browser menus and features, accessability and all that

[Ben Rogers]

I'm 13, and someone needs a black and red browser called dark soul, cuz thatd just be badass.

As for opera... if my dad gets a better connection ill go broswer crazii. until then... i won't.

and mozilla is fine for now for me :D

[96turnerri]

13 i thought as much lol

[Ben Rogers]

and just whats that supposed to mean, huh turner?

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by omega
I'm 13, and someone needs a black and red browser called dark soul, cuz thatd just be badass.

As for opera... if my dad gets a better connection ill go broswer crazii. until then... i won't.

and mozilla is fine for now for me :D
Excuses excuses. :rolleyes:

I've got the worst dial-up I know of, and I've got 8 browsers.

Although I've had trouble installing and running different versions of the same browser at the same time. :( Although Firebird and Firefox seemed to play nice together. But I couldn't seem to run Moz 1.5 and 1.6 at the same time... :(

[96turnerri]

its not meant to mean nothing, jst saying you sound youngish and i was correct, my buttons on moz1.5 are messed up cos of nn7.1 i think cos they are netscape buttons but all screwed up like diagonal and half cut

[Ben Rogers]

it's not meant to mean nothing
Translation: It is meant to mean something.
Double negative, boy. Not slippin that one by me, answer muh question... :rolleyes:

and as for you paul, well yes, excuses excuses, im lazy and damn proud :D

[96turnerri]

double negatives dont mean jack this isnt maths, n i passed maths with flying colours so...

[Ben Rogers]

Dude, you just said the stupidest thing.

Double negatives is an incorrect part of English, it's like the blink tag, always has been annoying, and now its been shunned.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
Dude, you just said the stupidest thing.

Double negatives is an incorrect part of English, it's like the blink tag, always has been annoying, and now its been shunned. still used in essays, articles, books and published. Jus depends on how you use em.

[96turnerri]

there is nothing wrong with using a double negetive in english if used correctly, it wasnt stupid because double negetives only really apply to maths not english so who looks stupid now

[rhsunderground]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
there is nothing wrong with using a double negetive in english if used correctly, it wasnt stupid because double negetives only really apply to maths not english so who looks stupid now
just a note, you spelled negative wrong.

wow this is interesting. this thread started out as an evaulation thread, then touched on avatars, international law, age discrimination, internet connections, acroynyms, and the ever-so-messed-up english language. like i said in another thread:

Similarly posted by rhsunderground on a different thread
i love these guys. they're like the family i never had. or saw. or heard. or smelled.

[96turnerri]

yeah thanks negative, i done that intentionally as kinda a bad joke lol, i guess this thread is now kinda off topic, so lets try and get back, we havnt had many posts from the thread started so we dont know there views on our opinions of our site and what they have done, so i guess -- we wait

[rhsunderground]

this needs to be changed:
<!POP YES 1 1076605496-0 ^^http://www.bluemoonart.150m.com/bluemoon.html<br%20/>=http://www.homesecuritytoday.com/!!philipson02>
the second half of it (=http://www.homesecuritytoday.com/!!philipson02>) is simply showing up as random text on the site. most unattractive.

[96turnerri]

where did that come from rhs?

[rhsunderground]

<center>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<!partner is 150m 192.168.100.13>
<td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center><font color="BLUE"><a
href="http://web-hosting.company-web-site-hosting-domain-hosting.com">-</a><a
href="http://www.150m.com" target="_blank" class="link">FREE WEB SITE HOSTING -
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[96turnerri]

o i c i actually forgot the purpose of the thread, thanks for getting it back on track, yes do what rhs said (NOTE the original link is down)

[iniquity101]

acroynyms
where are they located on this thread?

[96turnerri]

pages 3&5

[Ben Rogers]

yes. getting off topic is my specialty, and i dont think it should be "banned".

but yeah lots of ppl do that, not reply to their own threads, so i try to make it a point to stay active in everything/anything i post in.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by omega
but yeah lots of ppl do that, not reply to their own threads
I wonder why... :rolleyes:

[Ben Rogers]

You and turner... both of u dissin me *pretends to be :mad: *

[pyro]

Originally posted by omega
yes. getting off topic is my specialty, and i dont think it should be "banned".Well, it's not smiled on...

[Ben Rogers]

I mean a thread turning into general conversation after a question is answered, it doesnt hurt anything, as long as we continue to be helpful, which i try to be amap.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
I mean a thread turning into general conversation after a question is answered, it doesnt hurt anything, as long as we continue to be helpful, which i try to be amap. general conversation about music and movies is not helping any of us to make better web sites. Its just wasteing data base space. It can also get pete in trouble is a jupiter media rep comes in and sees us talking about foot ball or something. Try to keep off topic threads to friday - sunday.

[Ben Rogers]

ok then pretend i posted this thread tomorrow, lol.

as for the site.. it needs a LOT of work, a currently hopeleess case. it had no work put into it, no mood, and no determination- yet.

[96turnerri]

your best bet would be to plan kinda what you want on paper, either using you own ideas, or parts of other sites you have been to and set a colour scheme that will be used throughout the entire site, then work out how you are going to make it, then if u get stuck on a particular bit, ask one of us

[BrainDonor]

What the hell happened to this thread?

LOL

:p

[iniquity101]

how do you all plan a website you are making?


In IT at school, which does not teach us about webdevelopment (just basic IT), we are taught to make websites (and all projects we do) by first analysing the problem/situation, then designing the website which includes sketches (on paper) and software requirement and different software we could use, then actualy making the website, then testing everything and finally evaluating the whole thing.
Does anyone do anything remotely like that?

[96turnerri]

yeah

think of an idea
make the site backend/engine (if needed)
mockup a template either on paper or staright on pc
leave it for a bit come back to it add in new ideas
finish off design aspects
test
publish

[PhillMc]

Yeah, sounds like me.

I size up the project.
Derive the solutions the project demands.
Rough Sketch layout on my whiteboard.
Go through several prototypes, (all coded in notepad, sometimes VS IDE, with a refresh meta in the source, keeps me from having to hit 'F5' each time I make a change)
Fine Tune layout for content.
Go through code and walkthrough site for syntax, logic, and Runtime Exceptions.
Then I finally publish.

I find this method takes a little longer, but, I make less mistakes this way.

[Ben Rogers]

well as ive only made 1 site that i just continure to improve on, i can't say that i put that much work into it before i started, more after i start. and you've forgotten the hardest step: CONTENT!!!

[PhillMc]

The way I see it (opinion), get everything working well and debugged first before adding 'true' content. This gives you a lot less to sort through when debugging :)

[Ben Rogers]

well my site isn't so technically advanced as for that to be an option. Actually, it's somewhat advanced NOW, but the content was carried through all the redos , well some of it anyways. Heh, I saved the stories as HTML on microsoft word and then later on transitioned the to valid code, 'twas a pain. (Hint: Notepad, find and replace: <P> with <p /> and </P> with )

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
well my site isn't so technically advanced as for that to be an option. Actually, it's somewhat advanced NOW, but the content was carried through all the redos , well some of it anyways. Heh, I saved the stories as HTML on microsoft word and then later on transitioned the to valid code, 'twas a pain. (Hint: Notepad, find and replace: <P> with <p /> and </P> with ) <p/>?

[Ben Rogers]

<p />. It just works for me the same way i use <br /> instead f <br/>. Both validate.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
<p />. It just works for me the same way i use <br /> instead f <br/>. Both validate. But <br/> is because <br> would not have a close tag. <p> generally has one. That makes <p/> superfluous. <br/> is only needed for xhtml, it is perfectly fine in html 4.01 trans and strict... but I guess the whole world is slowly moving to xhtml these days.

[Ben Rogers]

it is valid, and in a page with already written content and all im doing is changing the tags to valid ones, it doesnt really matter now does it?

and anyways, i did use <p> and </p> you can even check the source of those stories. <p /> was an example.

[96turnerri]

yes ok lets say <p> and <p /> are valid, the ' /' is pointless because one it is not needed as the <p> has a close tag and two it just adds to the file size

[Ben Rogers]

I don't think you get it, you'd go:
<h3>header</h3>
<p />paragraph text
<p />paragraph text

as opposed to

<h3>header</h3>
<p>paragraph text</p>
<p>paragraph text</p>

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
I don't think you get it, you'd go:
<h3>header</h3>
<p />paragraph text
<p />paragraph text

as opposed to

<h3>header</h3>
<p>paragraph text</p>
<p>paragraph text</p> :rolleyes: You put a start tag at the start of the text and the end tag at the end. Not using an end tag would make the code invalid, the end tag is there for a reason. <p/> is not supposed to be used as a line break like a br and therefore must have an end tag because a <p> encloses text.

[Ben Rogers]

NEVERMIND. It validates on transitional. So it's tehcnically good. Now calm down.

[96turnerri]

yes we get it omega, its just pointless and invalid

[Ben Rogers]

i should tell you something: im someone who argues until both parties have the same thought. it is pointless, but it validates, hence it is valid.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by omega
i should tell you something: im someone who argues until both parties have the same thought. it is pointless, but it validates, hence it is valid. But it is not valid. Your text is not in a <p> tag so you are thereofre using it incorrectly, you are using it like a <br> tag. Validating on transitional is not neccisarily something to brag about or shoot for, strict is what you should go for, and if it can not be helped (messy server output maybe) then do trans.

[Ben Rogers]

ok, drop it. really. i dont use it neways, and ur not gonna change my mind about its validity, so this is pointless.

[96turnerri]

no its not pointless because whats the point in us helping you to learn stuff, if ur implementing it wrong, kinda defeats the object, if all new programmers are like you, then just think what sites will be like in 10years???!!

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by omega
i dont use it neways,

i must've said that like 5 times. I DON"T USE <p />. I'm just saying it validates on transitional.

[96turnerri]

Originally posted by omega
I saved the stories as HTML on microsoft word and then later on transitioned the to valid code, 'twas a pain. (Hint: Notepad, find and replace: <P> with <p /> and </P> with )

this says otherwise

[Ben Rogers]

Turner, if you don't beleive me, go to my site http://projep.t35.com/, go to one of my stories like http://projep.t35.com/s.php?s=chaos1 and view source.

[96turnerri]

you just said that you did use them, did you or did you not post that post i quoted? yes u did, which implies that u do use them, u cant say it was a typo cos u tlked bout them lots times after posting that, so :p

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by omega
NEVERMIND. It validates on transitional. So it's tehcnically good. Now calm down.
Omega, the W3C validator is a fallible program; it's not perfect. Just because <p /> passes the validator, doesn't make it valid or semantically correct.

[Ben Rogers]

The topic is kind of closed Paul. Now Paul, why is everyone calling me by my name Paul? And, also, as w3c validator is the current standard its the best i know. and, yes i did say that i used that, mainly because <p/> and nothing is easier to type then <p></p> . I didn't think it was suck a big thing.

[The Little Guy]

Ok Check out my newer Site there isn't Much there yet. The left side is my links (none of those work yet) the rightside is mainly other websites, review this site for me instead of the other one its the freewebs one, thanks.

Even though most of this isn't reviews, thats ok you can keep talking about what you want.

[PhillMc]

!!!!!
wow, I leave for an hour and..... lol

<p/>? How could that be valid? Let's see, if that's valid, then <div/> would be valid, like so:

<div/><a href="blah" />hey, clickme

OR hey, why not <html/>!

Do you see the point??? ;)

[PhillMc]

Little guy, this is what I got when I went to your site.

A Hotlinking Error Has Occured!


We have detected a hotlinking error. Hotlinking is when you link to images or NON html files on 150m.com from another host. Hotlinking is not allowed for our FREE Accounts. Hotlinking is allowed for our paid accounts. Your account can be upgraded in the user section when you have logged in.


um, ya might want to fix that. ;)

[Ben Rogers]

This thread is to help you, we wandered off subject becuase we had no feedback from you, this is the thread to better your site. OK, I'll start it off by saying you should put links on the bottom for the ones that would've appeared in the flash bar. If someone doesn't have flash, you're screwed right now.

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by PhillMc
Little guy, this is what I got when I went to your site.

A Hotlinking Error Has Occured!


We have detected a hotlinking error. Hotlinking is when you link to images or NON html files on 150m.com from another host. Hotlinking is not allowed for our FREE Accounts. Hotlinking is allowed for our paid accounts. Your account can be upgraded in the user section when you have logged in.


um, ya might want to fix that. ;)

just backspace the extra stuff at the end, the url is a tad messed.

[The Little Guy]

what site did you get hotlinking error freewebs or 150m?

I couldn't post anything because I changed my e-mail in my profile and didn't up date. thats why i didn't reply to any of you.

[PhillMc]

dont worry about it, omega was right :eek: The URL for the link was messed up. :)

[96turnerri]

it hasnt changed one bit, not that i can see

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by PhillMc
omega was right :eek:

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence. :rolleyes:

[96turnerri]

well you never usually are read back on this thread, you have been proved wrong many times thats just one thread! and you have made 345posts

[Ben Rogers]

"and you have made 345 posts"

point? and it's not always so much i'm wrong as.. well.. differing opinions.

[96turnerri]

hmmmmm not too sure about that one omega

[Ben Rogers]

shut up. really.

anyways whyd u say i had 345? and whyd i forget to celebrate my 100th post :confused: lol

[96turnerri]

why do u think you i said you had 345 posts?? because you did maybe? :eek:

[Ben Rogers]

but why did you say it? its like going up to someone, talking about politics, then slapping them, calling them a bigot and running away. it may be true, but wtf?

[96turnerri]

LMFAO, what i meant by it was you have been proven wrong many times in this thread alone, so considering you have made 345 posts i wonder how many times you have been wrong in total

[Paul Jr]

</close>

[Ben Rogers]

yeah, THANKS. And I'm not a total moron. A little dense but c'mon now....

[96turnerri]

i said all along should be closed, but u wanted me to explain it, so i did, dont want to be impolite now do we

[Ben Rogers]

true. but oh well. its friday, and how many timnes have you said "keep casual posts till friday" well not you, but yeah.

[96turnerri]

i have not said that once, neway i bet the thread starter didnt expect this to be the second biggest thread in the forum ;)

[Ben Rogers]

I know, right? We skipped so much we got from a site eval to me being an idiot! Well, that's always true, but oh well.

[96turnerri]

it wasnt really a site EVAL more of a site CAIN, feel sorry for him, i noticed that the site has been updated, when i clicked to visit it, it was the same as before, was this the same for you?

[Ben Rogers]

True. What's sad is I remember my first site, hideous thing it was, and it was better than that peice of junk. Well actually it was Project Epsilon v1.0, which is now ProjEp v999 or whatever. but yeah it was a noob site, but maybe hell get etter- he added some css to it, its a start.

[pyro]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
<p /> ...doesn't make it ... semantically correct. Bingo, we have a winner. <p> is used to markup a paragraph, thus an empty paragraph tag would be semanticly incorrect.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by pyro
Bingo, we have a winner. <p> is used to markup a paragraph, thus an empty paragraph tag would be semanticly incorrect. that has been said like 15 times in this thread lol.

[96turnerri]

true lol, just one question, what game is your clan for?

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
true lol, just one question, what game is your clan for? Starcraft mainly. But we play warcraft3 and diablo 2 as well. This is a battle net clan, so basically blizzard games.

[96turnerri]

o i c i couldnt find that out from the site, may want to sort that out :P, im a cs and rvs man myself

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
o i c i couldnt find that out from the site, may want to sort that out :P, im a cs and rvs man myself well Ill put an about us page on the new site, but the new site still needs a bunch of work before it will be even moderatly close to being done.

[96turnerri]

ok ill let you off, the link my forum, did you make that? i mean the forum script

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
ok ill let you off, the link my forum, did you make that? i mean the forum script yes. But the output is not valid. I plan on redoing the forum in the future too. I did the forum in a crappy way, I mean I need to completly redo it. There is so much I can improve apon, it just gets depressing lol. I will probably work on stuff tomorrow. Today is valantines day so I need to go over to my gfs house and chill w/ her. I do not expect to do anything today site wise. I rarely work on the site, because I do not like to do work unless I can sit fown for 2 - 3 hours and get some solid scripting done.

[96turnerri]

yes its not worth sitting down, for a bit at a time and doing little bits here and there i like to site down and do lots or an entire script if possible, im working on a script atm but thats way to big to sit down and do all at once, althought i worked on it for 37hours straight last week, got was i tired after that, got alot done tho, have fun chilling with your gf ;) i dont have to go round mines today, shes away, saves me some money :D

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
yes its not worth sitting down, for a bit at a time and doing little bits here and there i like to site down and do lots or an entire script if possible, im working on a script atm but thats way to big to sit down and do all at once, althought i worked on it for 37hours straight last week, got was i tired after that, got alot done tho, have fun chilling with your gf ;) i dont have to go round mines today, shes away, saves me some money :D lol I hear yah... she will probably expect me to bring her like some chocolate, or a can of spary paint or something (she is into vandalism lol), but I do not have any cash, I have 80 bucks in checks right now, I just do not want to cash them right this second. But When I am doing a new site layout, I can be at the comp all day, and get it done and do all the browser testing. But I just do not have time like that any more. I wish I did though, I would have this site done by now, and be working on a personal site and get my local reseller hosting / web design business up and running.

[96turnerri]

i started to work on a business like that, but with all the stuff im doing and sites i gotta make, i half make things and never get time to finsih them its really annoying one day i will just site down and blitz them lol, do them all finished, tested, validated, advertises the lot

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by 96turnerri
i started to work on a business like that, but with all the stuff im doing and sites i gotta make, i half make things and never get time to finsih them its really annoying one day i will just site down and blitz them lol, do them all finished, tested, validated, advertises the lot well Ill dot he work this summer when I have no classes. I am still in high school and all and I am loaded up with AP classes so I have butt load of work right now.

[96turnerri]

yeah im starting a new job on monday so gonna have even less time to do sites, but will get them done asap

[iniquity101]

heres (http://www.despair.com/bittersweets.html) a gift idea PeOfEo:p

Sad thing is you can actualy buy them!

[96turnerri]

LMFAO nice :D, get her them

[PeOfEo]

HAHAHA THATS GREAT! I just sent that everyone I know on aim.

[Ben Rogers]

thats great... i should get those for muh friend juli, my gf's bffl. when i say friends i mean 2 ppl who wish to kill each other, btw.

[96turnerri]

bffl? well ur yound cant expect you to like girls YET

ignore that just re read, just whats bffl?

[Ben Rogers]

let me put that in "proper english" for you...

That is great. I should get those for my friend Juli, who is my girlfriend's best friend for life. Me and Juli are only friends because I'm Carissa's (my girlfriend's ) boyfriend. K?

[iniquity101]

bffl. when i say friends i mean 2 ppl who wish to kill each other, btw.

thats not an oxymoron is it

[The Little Guy]

Anyone know of a good free music generator that i can dl off the web? Im looking for something that has pre set instruments and then if i want can edit the music and add stuff I was thinking of something like MTV Music Generator and since i cant get that to work im looking for something else that i could use.

[Ben Rogers]

i dont no of 1 but if ur thinking of doing what i think u wanna do, just tellin ya now bg music is annoying.

[Paul Jr]

Okay... I'm begging someone. PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD!!! Where's Pyro when you need him?!

[Ben Rogers]

why do u care so much? just stop posting in it.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by omega
why do u care so much?
Because this thread is 14 pages long; with about the first two being the only pages relevant to the thread's original subject. It's 12 pages of spam. It's using up forum resources, and it has no point.

[Ben Rogers]

no id say maybe 5 pages of spam tops

[Paul Jr]

I just checked out page three; and it's spam.

Also, I did not take Spufi's avatar. He had the Firebird 0.7 Avatar, and I saw a post by Pyro saying he should update it, so I nabbed it. As far as I know, I got the Firefox image first. :D

[pyro]

Paul's right, this thread is done and over. We need to work on this off-topic posting problem we've got going on...