Clients from hell. Can't live with them, can't live without them...

[Daria]

Perhaps, it's me just venting, perhaps, I'm indeed in need of support...
How do you deal with clients who want "a little scrolly thingie right here" and "how about a little flashy thingy right there", and then "make it look like my brochure... but how come it can't be 8" x 11"? "Now the site looks beautiful, how about you give me the password and I'll update it myself... Would Microsoft Word do?"... (chocking smilie goes here...)

I have couple of people I do an ennormous amount of work for, but I can never take credit for it, since what they want results in something so horrible I cannot put my name on it. We all run into it here and there: if they sign a check, deal with it... Sometimes I manage to talk sense into them, sometimes I don't. But it's so frustrating, when people are trying to "justify the money" by telling you what scripts/things/effects they want on the website... And they just don't get it that you pay for the quality, not for the quantity... In their perception, why people who came up with "got milk" or "just do it" should get paid big bucks? it's just a few words... Let's write couple of pages and stick some pretty images, and then let's make something blink!

AHHHHHHHHHHHH I had enough!!!!!

[DaveSW]

http://www.rosemont-sch.org/academics/art/pompeii/images/volcanoe%20erupting.jpg

:eek:

[buntine]

I can relate to what your saying, but we all know -- the customer is always right.

All we can really do is try our best to explain that flashy gifs and bright colors are not what make a Web Site professional, or even good!

But in the end, they are the ones paying, so lets just empty their wallets and move on.

Regards,
Andrew Buntine.

[Aronya1]

This is an interesting topic. In the situation described by Daria, we basically have 2 options: 1) Give the client what they want; or 2) Tell them it's a bad idea & refuse to do it.

Either way, I think, it's a client that will eventually go elsewhere. In the first case, the site will eventually become a piece of crap, and the developer will get the blame. In the second case, the client will likely shop elsewhere for someone who will give them what they want.

So there is an ethics/personal standards question. Compromise what we feel to be the "right" way to build a site, and make hay while the sun shines, or take a stand and refuse to compromise, thereby losing a commission and possibly/likely a client.

My personal opinion is that those clients are more trouble than they are worth, because there are usually other kinds of problems with them, too. Like getting paid in a timely manner, for example. I have a travel agent client who is so tight with her money, moths fly out when she opens her wallet. She's had an "Under Construction" page for a website for the last 8 months, because she won't give me any content to work with. Just when I was about to tell her that I wasn't going to wait any more & she should look for someone else, she (her assistant, actually) comes to me with some material to start working on. Why do I think that light at the end of the tunnel is the front of an oncoming train?

[Jona]

Tell the client that you don't do that, because it will make the site look like a piece of crud. Then when the client says, "Fine, I'll go look for a web designer who will do what I want!" Tell them, "Go ahead, and when you get what you think you want, you'll see why I told you I wouldn't do it; when you see your terrible site in the end, you can come back to me and pay me then. Doing it my way, I make money and you get a good site; doing it your way, you have to pay twice."

And, Buntine, the customer is always right -- if you're a retail store. ;) For Web Developers, the customer is always ignorant. :D

[buntine]

Good point.

[Jona]

Originally posted by buntine
Good point.

*Bows* :D

[Daria]

I agree :) I'm just still frustrated.

I'm just trying to find a compromise - not with work - but with way of handling it. People who "boss" you around usually wouldn't listen to reasons why your way is better. They want things their way, period... I know with some of them something like this is working: "Listen, you do nozzles: I come to you, I buy a nozzle - and your knowledge of how to do it right. I make websites - you pay me for a website and my knowledge of how to do it right. You wouldn't want me to tell you how to build a nozzle, would you?" Of course, this approach doesn't work on people with no sense of humor.

I am thinking even of putting a document called "Why I do things this way" and let them all read it when they sign a contract.

I totally agree with Aronya1: those clients usually have a list of problems they are associated with :) - they have problems giving content! And they are late with payments!....
Ohh... the "know-it-all-type!..."

[tomhartland]

I remember being taught, before I started working in the public domain, that there are 3 types of software:
- The software that the customer says they want
- The software that the programmer gives them
- The softwate that the customer actually wanted in the first place.

I didn't believe it before hand - now it's one of the major rules I live by. I've spent countless hours writing complex applications, and present them with a certain amount of pride, to be told "yeah, it's alright, but can you make it orange?"

Programming: who in their right mind would do it as a career... damn...! ;)

[Daria]

I would just replace "want" with "need" in the third type :D

[Aronya1]

I realize we all thought this thread was dead, and I'm not sure how long this link will be available, but I thought this was interesting as well as right on topic: article (http://www.marketingprofs.com/4/kadanoff1.asp)

[thomasjohn]

I feel your pain and understand your frustration. . . however, at least you get paid to create the web sites. I've been "playing with web development" for about 7 years now (I suppose that makes me a 'newbie' at it in the big scheme of things) and have to put up with everything you've mentioned. The catch is, I work for good ole Uncle Sam (civil service) and web development is what we call an 'additional duty'. Fortunately, the people 'up the chain' from me do listen for the most part. It's the folks who 'think they're in charge' that drive me up the wall! The next time one of them wants 'one of those blinky thingies' I'll probably delete their logon account 'by accident' (I'm also the network guy). Anyway, I hope things get better for you (but don't hold your breath).:D

[Daria]

thanks, guys :)

Aronya, I liked the article :))) thank you!!!!!!!!! I signed up, too.

Unfortunately, sometimes you are at the point where you have to pay too many bills and cannot afford to sift trough clients and you get your fingers crossed, and pray you are not getting "one of those", and take you chances.... "In short, beggars are not choosers" :

thomasjohn - perhaps, you can deal a little training out of your current position that can help you later on? good'ol government usually doesn't mind a little extra training? I don't envy you, though... thre are 3 types of people, folks who 'think they're in charge' , folks who 'think they should be in charge', and folks who are in charge. Let's hope that the 3rd type has enough wisdom..., and god save us from the first two :)

[Aronya1]

I'm sure you'll all be happy to know, I have successfully backed away from my travel agent would-be client. Dropped off a letter indicating I could not work on her site, if/when she finally made a decision on the style, due to simply having too much on my plate. Also advised her she will have to pay up to continue having her "under construction" page hosted, and set up a Godaddy account of her own for me to transfer her domain to.

Ahh!! Sweet freedom! :D

Hey Daria. Want a new client? :eek: