What are your opinions on cracks for high priced software?

[RedLooney]

A friend of mine has Photoshop CS, Adobe GoLive, Adobe Illustrator, Macromedia Dreamweaver, and quite a few other programs, all of which are cracked. He didn't pay a dime for any of them, and they are all fully functional. He must have thousands of dollars of software, FOR FREE! Of course it's completely illegal, but it's doubtful he will ever get caught. I was just wondering what everyone thought about using cracks and keygens to get software for free? Do you think it's okay? Do you think it's okay in certain circumstances? Or do you think it's completely wrong? And why or why not?

[Pittimann]

Hi!

Do you want anybody (everybody) here to admit, that he/she is using or has used such cracks?

I have already done so, but I wouldn't do that if small companies or individuals have written the stuff.

Cheers - Pit

[The Cheat]

It's stealing. Plain and simple. And just because you won't get caught doesn't mean it's not wrong. Although I do not appreciate the way companies like macromedia and adobe charge so much for their software, I am against stealing.

[Pittimann]

Hey, The Cheat - you really never cheated anybody?

That's almost unbelievable :D; I am 95% sure that not everything on your hard disk(s) is bought or freeware (unless you formatted the disk[s] today).It's stealing.Yes! That's what it is...

Cheers - Pit

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by The Cheat
It's stealing. Plain and simple. And just because you won't get caught doesn't mean it's not wrong. Although I do not appreciate the way companies like macromedia and adobe charge so much for their software, I am against stealing. I am against stealing physically from a store or something, not software piracy, too.

[The Cheat]

Originally posted by Pittimann
Hey, The Cheat - you really never cheated anybody?

That's almost unbelievable :D; I am 95% sure that not everything on your hard disk(s) is bought or freeware (unless you formatted the disk[s] today).Yes! That's what it is...

Cheers - Pit
Of course i have cheated somebody at some point in my life. I never said i was perfect or have never done anything wrong. duh.

And by the way... Everything on my computer i have either A. Paid for or B. its freeware. I even uninstall shareware if i decide im not going to buy it. All of the music that i have on my computer i own the cd (either that or it was a free download from the bands official website). All the games on my computer i own. I have a legal copy of windows. etc etc etc...I'm legal :)

[PeOfEo]

and how much do you make a year to afford that kind of stuff? What big software titles do you have, and what games?
aqua teen hunger force - err (one of the mooninites)
its not stealing when you need it, and man you need it.

[Pittimann]

Hi!I'm legalCongratulations!

I am not. Even though I hate stealing! My first reply to this thread was based on my experience concerning many, many people I know (mainly Germans - maybe that is the reason :p); none of them is "legal"; you are the first one!

PeOfEo, are you "legal"?

:D - Pit

[MstrBob]

I, personally, haven't pirated any software. In terms of downloading music, I used to, but now I own most of the music I downloaded. One of the reason my system is so crappy is because I have a low/no budget, yet I don't steal. I rely (greatly) on free software/tutorials/etc. I have used Adobe products before, and they are really awesome, but I simply haven't the budget for it. $2000 for a graphics program? I really awesome PC for that cash!!! The only shareware/demos I use is Winzip. It is a fully functional unregistered version for "EVALUATION PURPOSES ONLY!!!" 21 day trial period. Apparently, I've had it installed for 891 days. But, I would have to say that pirating software is wrong, and I would not do it nor support it.

[The Cheat]

How much money do i make a year..? Let's just say NOT VERY MUCH.

I dont have any big software titles. (other than windows really...Which came with my computer)

Games.. well im not a big gamer. But i have battlefield 1942, worms armageddon (BEST GAME EVER :D ), America's Army: operations (http://americasarmy.com) ("free" game that the goverment pays for with our taxes), some star wars game and a couple other's that i bought a looong time ago. I'm not as much of a gamer as i use to be though. I'm probably going to sell a few of them.

The truth is that i dont have a lot of expensive software. I have everything i need for what i like to do on my computer and its just about all freeware.

For example. I like to rip my cd's onto my computer so i can easily play them from winamp (freeware). I use dmc (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm) (freeware) to do that.

I use audacity (freeware) for all my audio editing needs. I use irfanview (freeware) for my quick image viewing/converting. I use the gimp (freeware) for all my image editing. I use synText editor(freeware) for my coding. etc.........

I can go on and on lol

[The Cheat]

7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) is a great freeware winzip replacement for anyone interested.

[PeOfEo]

the cheat, refer to my earlier post
aqua teen hunger force - err (one of the mooninites)
its not stealing when you need it, and man you need it.


I may or may not be legal. I do not want to openly talk about what I may or may not have bought, and what I may or may not have paid for.

[The Cheat]

peo i never even asked you. that was pittimann

[PeOfEo]

I know that, I was talking 2 you in the first part and to everyone else in the second... me saying and you need it was refering to just you, you need dream weaver, you need photoshop, nero, fruity loops, gold wave, you need xp pro, you need micrsoft sql server, exchange server, proxy server, w2k3 (ok you might not use all of the servers, but you need them none the less... you just do), and you need ms office xp, oh oh wait, you need unreal 2k3, mohaas, bf vietnam, and Ill think of more.

[PeOfEo]

agh, do not admit to piracy openly on the forum and don't give specific titles you have pirated copies of!
You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal activities. that is from the jupitermedia acceptable use policy, you are talking about your violation of laws, that could get you in trouble if the wrong person is looking (some jupiter media big wig that is in a bad mood because his hemroids are acting up) or someone who is affiliated with the company whos software you are pirating etc. Never post anything about what songs or movies are on your machine, the riaa and tristar (and some other film producers) are brutal.

[Daniel T]

What you talkin' bout? :p Yeah, I hear hemroids are bad this time of year, so I wouldn't want that to happen :D

[PeOfEo]

heh, noticed when I said, I may or may not have pirated software, I did not admit to anything... I just hinted.

[Pittimann]

Hi!

So far it seems, I am the only one who admitted (even though in small font and odd color).

Admit - guys!

Pit

[PeOfEo]

Daniel T did admin, then he deleted his post.

[Pittimann]

Coward! :D

Please don't take me serious.

Cheers - Pit

[Daniel T]

Originally posted by Pittimann
Coward! :D
Well, I admitted in a incriminating way.

I also have some files that were not paid for.

There, I don't think I can get in trouble for saying that. Unless the hemeroids really hit hard...
-Dan

[Pittimann]

Guys - let's continue this thread in a way which is something like hidden.

[PeOfEo]

???

[RedLooney]

In my opinion, the large companies like Adobe and Macromedia aren't losing any money from me, because if I weren't using the cracked ones, I certainly wouldn't buy the software at such unreasonable prices.

Says my friend I spoke of in the first post...not me of course.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by RedLooney
In my opinion, the large companies like Adobe and Macromedia aren't losing any money from me, because if I weren't using the cracked ones, I certainly wouldn't buy the software at such unreasonable prices. hence the difference between home and pro versions. home versions could be exactly the same as pro, except pro is licenced and you can make money from it, home you would not be allowed to. But sometimes home versions are too expencive too, or have limits on them (xp home can't run iis, even for tesing purposes for example).

[MstrBob]

iis?

[PeOfEo]

Internet Information Services. Its the microsoft server. It the most common server used for asp and asp.net, though asp with perl can run from apahce, and asp.net can now run on linux with apache. IIS can also run many other server side technologies if they are installed.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/iis/default.mspx

[RedLooney]

im a pro user

[Paul Jr]

I shall join Pittiman in the ranks of those who have pirated software.

[rhsunderground]

well i view the high priced software very similarly to the high priced medication - it's crap. the medication industry has the highest profit in the market, which is unnecessary. i'm not sure whether or not software companies really need to sell their products for $50, $300, or even $2000, but i can guess that if they sold their products for less, then more people would but them, which would decrease the losses from pirated copies (not a whole lot of people try to pirate notepad, for example.) i've never downloaded any program off the net. i might have downloaded more than 5 songs if a)i had a non 56.6 modem and b)i was stupid. i might have burned a couple games that my brother bought and installed them onto my computer, but the odds aren't good.

i'm full heartedly against downloading movies, because often hundreds of people lose money off of that, but i'm much more lenient about music. i usually borrow a friend's cd and make one of my own, or grab a couple songs and put them on my computer to make a mix later. what are thoughts on that topic?

[RedLooney]

I ...ummmm, a friend of mine has pirated movies and music...the movies are video CD's and are nowhere near a replacement for seeing it on the big screen. My friend only downloaded a couple of movies...and they just aren't worth it. Music, on the other hand, is another story.

[rhsunderground]

i have seen movies pirated off the net, and they DO suck. it's like watching tv on channel 100, if your tv only is supposed to go to 75.
and no, i didn't download it, just if you were wondering.

[RedLooney]

I can't say that I blame my friend for using Adobe Photoshop and ImageReady for free with a crack. He's on a very tight budget, couldn't afford to purchase it legally, and even if he had the cash for it, its WAYYYYY too expensive. But thats just my opinion. All of my software is 100% legal. :rolleyes:

[Conor]

Im against, If you cant afford software dont get it, its a pretty simple concept :p

[David Harrison]

I'm not entirely legal, I have 2.3Gb in downloaded mp3's and about 3Gb in downloaded music videos. Quite a mean feat for a 56kB modem eh?

I also have PSP6 at a 5 finger discount even though I have PSP7 legally, I just don't like 7 (or 8). :p

I also frequently use freeware such as Winamp (but I just can't figure out why it's still free). I still use version 2 because versions 3 and 5 suck ass.

Recently I may or may not have aquired Office 2003 Pro and that is definately the most expensive program that I may or not have. ;)

I wouldn't mind having a copy of Photoshop so if anyone knows somewhere that I could download a trial version let me know.

I'm quite strict about illegal games, so I only own a few of cracked ones, but I must own about a million legal games. I have NFS Underground because someone just burned a couple of discs and gave them to me at a LAN Party, (I'm strict but I'm not stupid, I'm not about to say no).
I own Unreal, Unreal II, UT2003 and UT2004 legally, I just love those games, who doesn't? :D

[Nevermore]

I'm with the cheat; everything on my computer is 100% legal. My income is very limited because I can only work in school holidays, but I still managed to save up and buy Studio MX plus (about $900), so I can't see what the problem is.

[David Harrison]

Originally posted by cijori
I can't see what the problem is.The problem is that I'd rather save up and buy an amazing PC which I could play games on at the highest possible graphics level for at least the next two years.

I am currently in the process of saving up, I've got some money coming in from a web-dev job and I have a buyer for this PC. :D

[RedLooney]

Lavalamp....you can get a trial download of Photoshop and other great Adobe products here http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jsp#product=39 but you have to sign up for an Adobe ID if you do not yet have one. A friend of mine found a crack for it, although it wasn't as easy as some others to crack. Of course, I personally don't condone using cracks in order to get really expensive software for free. I mean, Adobe is probably barely breaking even on Photoshop anyway. :rolleyes: lol

[Daniel T]

Originally posted by cijori
(about $900)
Here's the problem:

While it may only cost $900 to buy a nice set of programs such as that, remember that the prices are in American dollars. Since I am in Canada, a $900 purchase will turn into a purchase of $1,232.14 (according to http://www.xe.com/ucc/)

People don't want to pay 1200 bucks for a computer program. For that price, you might aswell get a whole new computer.

[Nevermore]

Although I said $900 I was, as you mentioned, giving the US price. The UK price that I had to pay was £700, which, according to XE.com, is $1238.77 US or $1,696.23 Canadian.

[DaveSW]

I do have a beta program. By some bizarre act of chance my computers clock seems to be stuck in may 2003, so it hasn't expired yet. Odd that. Still, next time I'm feeling flush I'll be buying it. Or when the price drops to it's normal 'well after release' figure.

But since I bought the last version at it's full 'new release' price I feel entitled to some leeway...

[The Cheat]

Originally posted by DaveSW
I do have a beta program. By some bizarre act of chance my computers clock seems to be stuck in may 2003, so it hasn't expired yet. Odd that. Still, next time I'm feeling flush I'll be buying it. Or when the price drops to it's normal 'well after release' figure.

But since I bought the last version at it's full 'new release' price I feel entitled to some leeway...
you should fix that... i have found that windowsupdate.microsoft.com doesn't show the latest updates when my computer clock was a year behind.

[DaveSW]

This is an intranet machine without internet access so I don't care too much about windowsupdate... lol.

Still, it's awful complicated to fix isn't it? :confused: lol

[JDW]

I agree that everyone has in their day had software that isnt regesterd to them. We i mean they the crackers( i prefer reverse engineering ) but call it what you may. I darn!! The reversers most of them do it for the experience and not for the application. I have infact read a tutorial or 2 with no luck may i add; when i was finished and i found out i did need or want the application i sent the author of the program the money. The application was mine already but i sent the author money. You are mastaking the the honest reversers with your ever so unpopular "WAREZ" SITES WHOM WE I MEAN THEY LOAD.

TY JDW

[Daniel T]

Originally posted by DaveSW
I do have a beta program. By some bizarre act of chance my computers clock seems to be stuck in may 2003, so it hasn't expired yet.
So... you mean... those trials and stuff keep track of time using the clock on the computer?? So I could just set it back a week and get an extra week worth of free trial?
-Dan

[David Harrison]

I think that it works off the internal clock rather than the one in the bottom right corner of the screen. So if you were to keep changing your PC clock in bios then maybe it would work, but don't quote me on that.

[Nevermore]

It depends on the application; some things DO use the windows clock, others use the system clock. Many new applications use the windows clock and save the time when they are closed, then lock up if it is moved backward while they are closed.

[DaveSW]

Most Betas depend on the windows system clock, and it doesn't matter whether the package is open or closed when you change it...

I will definitely be buying it now though. My life now seems to depend on their background removal tool. :D

[Daniel T]

Haha. I just set my clock in my systray back 5 days and it gave me an extra 5 days of CuteFTP! :D

[DaveSW]

But will you definitely be buying it at a later date? if yes then at least it has some positive side. If no.. then that's where I start to think it's wrong.

[Daniel T]

Originally posted by DaveSW
But will you definitely be buying it at a later date? if yes then at least it has some positive side. If no.. then that's where I start to think it's wrong.
Yeah, actually, I do plan to buy it, because it's awesome! Besides, it's a hassle to be changing your clock all the time. ;)

[Sam]

why buy cuteftp when you can get filezilla (http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/) for free? i'd suggest a quick browse of scriv's (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/our_thoughts/nonscientific_poll_ftp_client.php) thoughts on the issue

[Daniel T]

SWEET! Thanks for the links, Sam! Downloadin' it right now!

[Sam]

good call, it was the SourceForge project of the month in January, I saw it then and haven't switched back (I used to use either wsFTP or absoluteFTP) since. Its a handy little app, especially the view/edit on the fly feature.

[Daniel T]

One question though, Sam. I've got it set to open everything with notepad, but when I open a file, edit it, and save it, it doesn't apply the changes when I go to it in Firefox. Do I have to do something extra to get it to upload it after I save it?

[Sam]

You have to close notepad before it will re-upload the file. I'm not sure why, its probably easier to monitor whether or not notepad is open than whether or not the file has changed, I'm not really sure

[PeOfEo]

do not click this link, it may or may not have stuff that may or may not be legal on it (http://www.serials.ws)

[Sam]

but why PeO? FileZilla is a better program than CuteFTP, And one may or may not be prosecuted for something like that. I can understand why people would crack programs like Maya (http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=404862&store=pcmall&source=pwbfroogle&adcampaign=email,pwbfroogle) or Lightwave (http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=972257&store=pcmall&source=pwbfroogle&adcampaign=email,pwbfroogle), but when there's a free program of greater or equal quality, I fail to see the point.

[David Harrison]

Thanks for that link Peo, (which I may of may not have clicked).

Tell you guys what, if I don't get the hang Photoshop in 30 days or if I don't like it, I won't crack it. I can't say fairer than that can I? :p

[Daniel T]

Originally posted by samij586
FileZilla is a better program than CuteFTP
Actually, I'd have to say I like CueFTP better. I don't like the closing notepad for changes to take effect issue one bit. Also, CuteFTP has a built-in editing feature that is much easier to use than notepad or having to wait for another app to open. And, the big reason: CuteFTP is much much faster.
-Dan

[Sam]

good point on the speed... earlier today, I may or may not have made a php script to create thumbnails that my or may not have gotten stuck in an infinite loop that may or may not have created 2000 more thumbnails that I wasn't expecting, and Its been deleting for about 15 minutes now, and its still going

[PeOfEo]

I just use a windows folder, bookmark my ftp box and copy a file to it. I find it the most convieniant.

[DaveSW]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
do not click this link, it may or may not have stuff that may or may not be legal on it (http://www.serials.ws)

Thing I hate about sites like that is they all try to install spyware on your pc.

[pyro]

Originally posted by RedLooney
I was just wondering what everyone thought about using cracks and keygens to get software for free?It's stealing, plain and simple.

Originally posted by RedLooney
Do you think it's okay? Do you think it's okay in certain circumstances?No

Originally posted by RedLooney
In my opinion, the large companies like Adobe and Macromedia aren't losing any money from me, because if I weren't using the cracked ones, I certainly wouldn't buy the software at such unreasonable prices.Then don't use the software. :rolleyes: Doesn't seem like rocket science to me. If you can't afford the software, find a cheaper alternative.

[RedLooney]

Pyro ... Just curious, are all the programs on your system 100% legal? I know you're gonna say yes because of that previous post, even if it isn't true. Of course, I pay for everything on my system also. ;) Earlier I was just talking about a "friend" of mine who has pirated software.

[pyro]

Originally posted by RedLooney
Pyro ... Just curious, are all the programs on your system 100% legal?Yes, they are. I don't know why you should have such a hard time believing that some of us don't use pirated software. :confused:

Originally posted by RedLooney
Of course, I pay for everything on my system also. ;) Earlier I was just talking about a "friend" of mine who has pirated software.Then what's with the wink and the quotes around friend?

[RedLooney]

This particular thread is all about personal opinions, not incriminating ones self by saying "Yes, I have pirated software." With that out of the way, let me get back to my "friend", Bob. My personal opinion on this subject is that if Bob downloads a free trial of "program x" from the internet, which is normally $500-$600, and there's no way he would ever spend that much cash on any particular program, and then he cracks it, I don't think Bob is stealing, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. On the other hand, if Bob goes into a brick and mortar store and takes "program x", a pack of gum, or anything else, that is truly stealing. The difference is, in scenario A(the download), the company which makes "program x" is not losing any profit whatsoever, because Bob was never going to buy it. It's a download, so they aren't losing any inventory which could have been sold to someone else. So I believe it is a "victimless crime", so to speak, but it IS illegal. In scenario B, if Bob takes anything out of a store, even if he would have never purchased it because of the high price, or for whatever reason, he's taking inventory which could have been sold to someone else. Now he is definately stealing. Anyway, thats just my personal opinion about Bob. Pyro, I know you are going to disagree, and I can definately see where you're coming from. You are very intelligent and have answered a couple of questions for me in the past, so I'll be more than happy to listen to your opinion, and anyone elses on this matter, any any other subjects. I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong about something. So, what does everyone thing about good ole Bob?

[MstrBob]

Whaoh... dude... I don't pirate software, and I definately don't rob stores. Personally, I think Bob (me) is really cool. I'm just pulling yer leg, but couldn't we call this person, Person Y? Bob is a bit... discomforting. And anywho, both are wrong, neither should be done, and doing either crime is no less wrong. I in no way condone or support it, but I don't feel software should be so outrageously priced.

[Daniel T]

I don't think that actually cracking software is near as bad as downloading a cracked version of it, because you are just using what you obtained legally. It's not illegal to buy a car, then do work on it to make it better, and I believe that downloading a trial version then cracking it is similar to this. But hey, it's just my opinion.

[Sam]

I'd say its more like borrowing a car and not returning it, but thats just me.

[rhsunderground]

it's not stealing, it's taking something that isn't yours which one would otherwise pay for to use for personal benefit. oh, wait, THAT'S STEALING!

[pyro]

Originally posted by RedLooney
This particular thread is all about personal opinionsIn a way, though I'd say it's more about personal ethics.

Originally posted by RedLooney
...Bob downloads a free trial of "program x" from the internet, which is normally $500-$600, and there's no way he would ever spend that much cash on any particular program, and then he cracks it, I don't think Bob is stealing...Perhaps he would not spend that much money on the program now. BUT, what about 2 years down the road when he has more money, and his skills have advanced to the point that he needs the program? Will his conscience then prick him, and he'll go and purchase the full program, which is what he would have done had he not had the illegal copy? I doubt it... Also, no matter how you look at it, piracy does hurt the companies.

Originally posted by RedLooney
in scenario A(the download), the company which makes "program x" is not losing any profit whatsoever, because Bob was never going to buy it.Yes, they actually are. For one thing, as I said earlier, there's really no way to say that "Bob" would never buy the program. From the companies point of view, whenever their software is ripped, they lose a potential $xxx amount of money. (ie. It's highly unlikely that they will ever see that money, even if the client would have legitimately purchased the program at a later point. Since they already have the program for "free" [free for them, not the company], very few people would go back and pay the company.)

[RedLooney]

I understand and repect what you are saying Pyro, but I can say without a doubt that Bob...oops, I mean Person Y, would not pay $500 for any type of program, even if he could afford it later on, unless that particular software was helping to produce a profit. Lets face it, MOST of the really expensive software out there just isn't worth what they cost. You can do almost everything with free or cheaper software that you can do with the outrageously priced stuff. I don't see anything wrong with Person Y obtaining cracked software for personal use. I admit that it is costing the company extra unnecessary bandwith, but if he's going to use the software to try and turn a profit, he should go with freeware. I respect everyones opinions who has posted on this forum, and I appreciate your respect. FREE BOB....I MEAN PERSON Y!!!!!!!! j/k, he's not locked up...yet

[Sam]

You can do almost everything with free or cheaper software that you can do with the outrageously priced stuff
Then why crack the "outrageously priced stuff"? If there's a free alternative, use it. If not, the save up your money, and pay what the companies are asking.

[RedLooney]

Should I change my screen name from "RedLooney" to "Mister Y" and put up some bars on my avatar? :( I love forums...to be able to get the opinions of other semi-liked minded people on a variety of subjects....even if everyone disagrees with me.......at least it's about something which I'm (at least ethically) in the wrong---------keep up the good work administrators.

[RedLooney]

I believe I answered that in the same post you got that quote from Sam. I said " I don't see anything wrong with Person Y obtaining cracked software for personal use." As long as it's not for profit. Just my opinion.