To Frame or Not to Frame

[Four_of_Five]

Is there a way for me to create a webpage that has no frames and yet have it act/react as if it were framed? You know where
the side column menu doesn't seem to load along with everything else when it is clicked.
Is it CSS or DHTMLed?

Better yet, can you direct me to a website that does a very good example of this?

[khalidali63]

IFrame may be?

cheers

Khalid

[sdonato]

iframes have huge multibrowser issues.

there really isn't a way to do it but you could use SSI's to make your nav bar once so you don't need to code it on each page.

that may help but when it comes down to it if the URL changes the page will need to reload.

-sdonato

[Stefan]

Originally posted by sdonato
[B]iframes have huge multibrowser issues.


They do?
In my experience they work in all v5+ browsers and if you need support for NS 4 you can always nest a <layer> inside the <iframe>.

And for browsers that doesn't understand either you just leave a link to the page nesed inside both

ie
<iframe><layer>Backup Link</layer></iframe>

[sdonato]

your right they do work in all 4+ IE but last time i checked netscape wasn't supporting them... granted i haven't checked in a shilw b/c belive it or not there is still people out there using netscape <5.

origanially Microsoft developed iframes and thats why netscape choose not to recognize the tag. now i did check and iframe is in the HTML 4.0 scrict.

so looking at the new info i have found i would say that iframes whould be ok to use just make sure that you have a link to your page in the comment tags for unsupported browsers.

i found this info

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/iframe.html

you may want to just read it over before you dive into iframes.

-sdonato

[Stefan]

Originally posted by sdonato
[B]your right they do work in all 4+ IE but last time i checked netscape wasn't supporting them...

You havn't checked a netscape browser in the last 2 years?


granted i haven't checked in a shilw b/c belive it or not there is still people out there using netscape <5.


As I already said, you can use Layer if you need NS 4 compablilty.

[sdonato]

i never said i haven't check them in 2 years i said a while all that matters to me is that people are still using them.

if you choose to design code that is not 100% compatible that is your choice. i was just trying to help someone out with all the info that is available not get in a debate with someone about designing practices.

i even agreed with you(Stefan) that they are fine with new browsers and felt that if Four_of_Five chooses to use them that is his choice.

i do agree that we the designer need to move forward using the newer technologies to force the people with older browsers to update, but most of my clients don't agree.

-sdonato

[pyro]

Originally posted by sdonato
i do agree that we the designer need to move forward using the newer technologies to force the people with older browsers to updateI don't think that's what Stefan said. I think what he said was you can make your iFrames compatable with older browsers.

[sdonato]

i admit i haven't tested Netscape in like 3 months but i do notice that there is still a number of users using Netscape <5 on all my server logs.

if you choose to use iframes that is your choice all i ever wanted to do is make that comment that they are not 100% compatible with all browsers.

-sdonato

[Stefan]

Originally posted by sdonato
there is still a number of users using Netscape <5 on all my server logs.


"IFRAMES" WORK IN NS 4.x!!!!!!


You just have to use <layer> to provide the same functionallity as <iframe>


This is the 3rd time I say this in this thread so I hope it will be enough even for you to understand ;)

[sdonato]

hey sorry about that sefan i meant to say <4

i not a big layer fan either ;) who would have guessed right ;)

i just was looking at a my O'Reilly HTML book and it was saying that netsacpe 4.0 was not supporting it however it didn't mention the layer tag as an option for netscape. i guess i need to get a new book.

hey never wanted to start anything about this subject. hope to find another subject to talk about some day with you.

hope there is no hard feelings :)

-sdonato

[Stefan]

Originally posted by sdonato
[B]hey sorry about that sefan i meant to say <4

Oh, ok that makes some difference :D


i not a big layer fan either ;) who would have guessed right ;)


Me neighter. When I use Iframes I usually only leave a link for NS 4 and older browsers.
But for many if it works 100% in NS 4 or not can be a make or break question, so I usually inform people about the workaround.


i just was looking at a my O'Reilly HTML book and it was saying that netsacpe 4.0 was not supporting it however it didn't mention the layer tag as an option for netscape. i guess i need to get a new book.


A good place to find crossbrowser compatible info is at the NS Developer site.

This link brings up the layer workaround eg

http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2001/updating-dhtml-web-pages/


hope there is no hard feelings :)


Definitly not. If one is easily offended and hold grudges, posting on forums is probably bad for your health anyway :D

[pyro]

Originally posted by Stefan
If one is easily offended and hold grudges, posting on forums is probably bad for your health anyway :D ...lol. I think that is true. :D

[sdonato]

i am sure i will find something to debate with you in the future ;)

laters,
-sdonato