Hackers, in you opinion, are ... ?

[MstrBob]

Hackers have been around since before Personal Computers (the first ones use to hack into the phone systems to place free calls to, er, wherever) Now of course today, hackers have driven software security to new heights, creating encryption methods, flood post controls, password authentication, and of course much more. They cause much havoc, but still, many people idolize them.

Well, what prompted me to post this, is that when I tell my non-computer type friends that I know all of this web development type-stuff, their first reaction is always "So, do you hack into computers and write viruses and all that cool stuff?". There's a lot of people who view these virus writers and hackers as being really cool.

My personal opinion is that they're, obviously, a menance. But I really feel that these people, who think they are so cool because they crack into systems, are nothing but cowards. If they were really talented, why don't they try making hacker-proof systems? Maybe they're just too scared to create their own software, and it's just easy to create malicious virii. But this is just, of course, my opinion. What I really would like to know is, how do you all view hackers/virii writers, IYO?

[PeOfEo]

HACKERS RULE, I LOVE THEM. THEY ARE JOB SECURITY FOR THE GOOD PEOPLE AT SOPHOS, SYMANTEC, MCAFEE, TREND, MICRO, AND MY FRIEND WHO IS IN THE SECURITY BIZ BENEFITS FROM THEM :p. I just dont like being the one who is getting raped by them :D actually in all reality, I am not a big fan of them.

I know a guy whith a big conspiracy theory, he seems to think that the anti virus and fire wall makers hire people to make virii to create business. Thats like adt hireing people to rob houses. Or if fire fighters were a commercial buisiness, firefighters starting house and forest fires. Paramedics running people down in the parking lott. Doctors hire mcdonalds to give people cancer with their french fries!!! Thats a good one.

[Sam]

You guys have confused hackers and crackers (see this (http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#what_is))... To be a hacker is not at all a bad thing, and I have great respect for anyone who can honestly say they are a hacker.

[john_h]

hacking+smacking=cracking

there are hacker, and there are smackers, sometimes a hacker smacks a machine around enough he actually cracks it, but generally, its the actual crackers (just a coincidence many are caucasian-- but many are also asian too) usually who do the real dirty stuff.

[MstrBob]

So... then... are we web developers considered hackers, or just web developers?

[Sam]

probably neither... usually it is refering to those who use compiled languages (aka: C++, Java, etc.)

[MstrBob]

Aaah, C++. I started to learn it last summer, then stopped. But allow me to ask a question, can C++ be used to create windows-type programs? When I first started learning it, it's all MS-DOS. At more advanced stages of C++, does one create the type of programs the general masses use and such?

[Jona]

Originally posted by MstrBob
Aaah, C++. I started to learn it last summer, then stopped. But allow me to ask a question, can C++ be used to create windows-type programs? When I first started learning it, it's all MS-DOS. At more advanced stages of C++, does one create the type of programs the general masses use and such?

First there was C, then C++, now there's C# (I don't know if it's portable to any OS other than Windows). When you start basic programming, everything is DOS, but with a good compiler you can create menus and GUIs (pronounced "gewy," stands for "graphical user interface," in case ya didn't know that). Most of the programs that run on Windows, Linux, and/or Mac (but not just Windows) is either C, C++, or Java. There's also Pascal, Delphi, COBOL, and so on, but I don't know much about those -- they aren't as popular as C, C++, and Java, from what I understand. If it only runs on Windows, you're probably looking at a Visual BASIC program.

To answer your original question, though, I'd say that while I don't agree with what hackers do or their reasons to do what they do (unless it's justified), they are very useful. How? Well, you can try to hack, for example, my forum. You're a hacker! Is that a bad thing? Not unless you continuously exploit your hack without reporting it (glares at Adam Brill). Eventually, though, thanks to the hacker(s), the system as it its top security level, which will prevent any real damage once it's released. This is usually known as the testing phase of software, but it doesn't mean that once it's released it can't be hacked. But once it is hacked, you can find the exploited hack and fix it, so that they no longer can. Now, on a Web site such as www.gametalk.com, there is no reason to hack, flood, impersonate other users, or break any other forum rules. However, there are some -- myself included -- who've developed ways to get administratior and moderator passwords, as well as all of the abilities that a Moderator or the Administrator can have. Did we break the law? Absolutely. However, we've reported it to the administrator -- Mike Pooler, FYI -- and he's proceeded to fix the problems. Our reasons were justified -- at least, mine were. :rolleyes: By explaining the hacking process to the administrator, we've helped a great deal. So have we hacked? Yes, indeed; however, it was for the good of the Web site, in the long run. This is why I believe justified hacking is a good thing, whereas I believe unjustified hacking -- such as getting passwords and not reporting anything to whom it belongs -- is a very nasty deed.

[davidbrent]

My dear Jona; What is your signature about?

Best Wishes,
David

[Jona]

Originally posted by davidbrent
My dear Jona; What is your signature about?

Run the PHP code. ;)

[AdamGundry]

I agree with Sam, and the ESR article he linked to. I particularly like this:
Hackers build things, crackers break them.
Officially I don't support cracking in any form (though I have been known to experiment with my college network once in a while :D). Hacking, though, is a different story. I would like to be called a hacker, but I don't think I'm experienced enough to merit the title. Someday, perhaps...

Adam

[PeOfEo]

white hat is a hacker who is not mallitious, a black hat is millitious, he can be worse then a cracker because he can do more damage. Black hat = boldimort, white hat = Harry potter. Crackers do not break, they break in, crackers crack passwords, encryption etc. Hackers break things in general, and also practice the art of getting in to where they are not supposed to, but may di it by other means besides brute forcing a password etc. Programmers build things :p. Carpenters build things.

[Jona]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
mallitious ... millitious

You seem to be having a li'l bit of difficulty with that word. I understand you, but think of it as a derivative from the word "malice." Maybe that will help you to remember it's spelled "malicious." ;)

Not trying to be mean or picky, just thought I'd give a friendly tip from one student to another. :)

[PeOfEo]

Ill be sure to forget that, I can't just jap a correct spelling into my head and expect it to come back out correct. I am a crappy speller, always have been. LEAVE ME ALONE :( *cries*

[Jona]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
Ill be sure to forget that, I can't just jap a correct spelling into my head and expect it to come back out correct. I am a crappy speller, always have been. LEAVE ME ALONE :( *cries*

Bah, I've been ruined for this before. I'm sorry. I'm a grammar/spelling critic. It just comes natural. I'll try not to do it again. :(

But... maybe www.spellchecker.net would help some, or Windows Word?

[MstrBob]

Heh, and take it from the old Harry Potter fanatic. It's Voldermort.... not "boldimort".

Anywho, I hadn't known there are so many different types of... whatevers. Crackers, black hat hackers, white hat hackers, Red Hat Linux, it's all confusing.

[Jona]

Originally posted by MstrBob
Heh, and take it from the old Harry Potter fanatic. It's Voldermort.... not "boldimort".

Really? I always thought they were talking about a place! You know... Baltimore?

[MstrBob]

God no! Who cares about Baltimore? (sorry to all of you Baltimorons ... I mean, residents of Baltimore). No Voldermort is a super evil wizard dude who has lost his corporal body and become a mere sphere of existence and sheer magical power. However, I think he might destroy Baltimore. You know, the whole name confusion thing.

[PeOfEo]

I might have been talking about baltimore... baltimore sucks, nothing good has come from that horrible place. Only a decrepid foot ball team that wastes my time when they play the teams I like. I am not a super harry potter fan, I just saw i t though so the movie and Hermione are still fresh in my mind.

[Jona]

Originally posted by MstrBob
(sorry to all of you Baltimorons ... I mean, residents of Baltimore)

ROTFL!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

[MstrBob]

Well, um, I agree with Jona. Learn to spell! :p You know how I learned to type? I started writing fan fictions. When you do that much typing, you just pick it up. The only reason I can touch type and actually get any coding done is because of fan fictions. And I only wrote fan fictions because of Harry Potter. So I guess I can thank Harry Potter for making me a computer geek!

[Jona]

Originally posted by MstrBob
Well, um, I agree with Jona. Learn to spell! :p You know how I learned to type? I started writing fan fictions. When you do that much typing, you just pick it up. The only reason I can touch type and actually get any coding done is because of fan fictions. And I only wrote fan fictions because of Harry Potter. So I guess I can thank Harry Potter for making me a computer geek!

I took about two lessons on this Mavis Beacon typing program, to learn how to position my hands on the keyboard. Then I was like, "This is stupid. I type slower!" And for a while I had to look at the keys. I spent about 14 hours a day on the computer at that time -- which is the reason I have bad eyesight and approx. 85 WPM typing speed -- and I enjoyed every moment of it. When you are on the computer that much, for two years, you learn to type and spell well... I've always been good at grammar and spelling, though.

[PeOfEo]

AIM and battle net taught me how to type. I can crank out somehwere between 55 and 60 wpm.

[MstrBob]

I can type! W00t! I've never really timed myself, but I know that I can type somewhat speedily. Most of my non-computer knowledgable friends can't keep up with me on AIM. So it helps feed my ego, which this board is responsible for shattering. :p But I shall keep posting! I will keep posting until my average posts reaches 1 a day! Whooh!

[PeOfEo]

I told my friends they tipe to slow and they told me I am a nerd and that I am online too much.

[MstrBob]

Always count on your friends to ground you in reality. And complete strangers. Actually, the only people that will appease your ego are those who want something from you. Beware of anyone who worships you! Online, people say I'm not geeky enough, offline they say I'm too geeky.

[PeOfEo]

I wish I had a woman who would worship me but was not wanting my treasure lol.

[sharkey]

Has anyone seen the movie Hackers 2- Operation Takedown thats a great movie especially becuase it is based on a real story about Kevin Mitneck.

I wish I had a woman who would worship me but was not wanting my treasure lol.

Funny Peofeo:D

[PeOfEo]

Nobody gets their hands on me lucky charms.

[rhsunderground]

i didn't bother to read most of the replies to this topic. i just got back from new york and when i saw the topic, i had to jump on. i did a psychology report on hackers and society's view of hackers (which i got an 'A' on) and i found some things rather interesting.Originally posted by PeOfEo
I know a guy whith a big conspiracy theory, he seems to think that the anti virus and fire wall makers hire people to make virii to create business. Thats like adt hireing people to rob houses. Or if fire fighters were a commercial buisiness, firefighters starting house and forest fires. Paramedics running people down in the parking lott. Doctors hire mcdonalds to give people cancer with their french fries!!! Thats a good one. A Senior Security analyst for M$ says that M$ works with hackers to “protect our customers. And we like protecting our customers.”
The dictionary says:
• Hacker
o One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
• Cracker
o One who makes unauthorized use of a computer, especially to tamper with data or programs
sounds like quite the difference to me.

the media makes script-kiddies/cyber punks (kids that download scripts, use them, and then usually get caught becuase they brag about it online) look like the stereotypical hacker. so what we should do is send evil nasty letters to the media companies with a dictionary included (and make them pay the postage) and force them at cursor point to come clean about the internet community and then we could sleep at night again. or something like that.

[PeOfEo]

hackers do break stuff and break into stuff, but script kiddies are posers. Crackers do what their name suggests, they crack. But a hacker is not simply a programmer.

2. One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file. the second definition, under yours on dictionary.com

# One who makes unauthorized use of a computer, especially to tamper with data or programs.
there is a difference, but crackers are more often militious. Hackers can use their magical abilities for good or evil. At times cracking and hacking are done at the same time for certain acts. Hackers can be crackers and crackers can be hackers.

Microsoft sends products to places like FIT (florida institute of technology, a no name school) and says here, break into this. Every flaw you find will be this much cash to your univiersity. Each student trues to crack and hack the os. That is how the security test it before it is released. Of course that will not catch every error but it does net quite a few.

[rhsunderground]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
hackers do break stuff and break into stuff
i do not deny this, but TRUE hackers break into stuff to see if they can do it, not to meddle around.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by rhsunderground
i do not deny this, but TRUE hackers break into stuff to see if they can do it, not to meddle around. a black hat hacker is a bad hacker, he will bring stuff down for fun. I have known one, he launched ddos on porn site servers, he broke into them and deleted files. Now breaking into porn sites and shutting them down is good morally, but it is also illegal so therefore bad.

[rhsunderground]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
I have known one, he launched ddos on porn site servers, he broke into them and deleted files. that was him? that bastard! :P

[PeOfEo]

he had some successful attacks. He took over the computers in 3 e-cafe's places, and some kiva's at the mall and in some department stores, and the computer lab at our local community colledge. All in all like 90 machines on business class dsl, ti, and a t3. He had the servers down for 12 hours before the stores opened again and closed their networks down. He made a bot put it in the computers startup folder basically, and when the machine started the bot connected to an irc channel and he controlled all the machines from that. The bot executed a batch file and he put in the site url and the thing nuked. The results were put in a text file and wispered to him, he also joined the bots for different sites into different rooms to keep it organised. Its not an original way to do a ddos, but it worked nicely. It was a good denial of service attack. I do not know much about him getting into the sites, but apparently he used telnet or something... or maybe he got remote desktop. He could have just trojaned it, I dono. But he had a place down for a day till the backup was online. This was all more then a year ago.