why we need forms???

[swstos]

Hi...

i have a query:

Is it necessary to use forms???
e.g. in a web page there are 5 drop down boxes... is it correct to not put each of them in a form??? or is it a MUST to put each of them in a form and if its a MUST why???

thanks on advance...

[khaki]

hi swstos

You don't NEED a form if you don't plan to do anything with the drop-down boxes (display only?).

But if you plan on submitting the selected information of those boxes, they will need to be contained within a form (and depending on how your using them, they can all go into 1 form - you don't need 5 seperate forms).

Maybe someone will come along and say that it's bad coding practice to not include a form (even if you are not submitting anything from the form elements), but ultimately, why would you need drop-down boxes if you are not using a form (just use lists or something).

Is that any help?
k

[swstos]

thanks that was a great help...!!!

[Stefan]

Originally posted by khaki
hi swstos

You don't NEED a form if you don't plan to do anything with the drop-down boxes (display only?).


Yes you do NEED a form, becuse the dropdowns boxes are form-controlls and as such are only allowed IN a form.

Next silly thing comming from khaki will probably be something like "you don't need <img> to include an image on your webpage, you can just cut and paste the binary image data into your webpage."

[khaki]

I thought that the way I answered the question took into account the very issue that you have taken me to task for Stefan.
As a control, the following drop-down box displays with or without a Form.

<SELECT id=grrrr name=grrrr>
<OPTION>It doesn't require a Form</OPTION>
<OPTION>To make these options appear</OPTION>
<OPTION>Although they serve no function other than display</OPTION>
<OPTION>So why would you need drop-down boxes if you are not using a form?</OPTION>
<OPTION>...So what's Stefan's beef with that?</OPTION>
</SELECT>

I made the point to say that it has no value aside from display.
I also made the point that it would be considered bad coding practice (although I deferred the specifics of that to the usual suspects in here who traffic in such areas).

I also then offered another possible solution (lists), since I had already made the point that he could not "do anything" with drop-down boxes that are not part of a form.

And Stefan, in case you didn't notice , swstos emphasized "MUST" and I emphasized "NEED". I answered a "literal" question "literally". If that wasn’t clear, I’m sorry, but perhaps swstos fully understood it just as I wrote it (even if you didn’t).

And Stefan... you are wrong. Actually the next "silly thing coming from khaki " is:
I'm rubber and your glue...
k

[swstos]

I also used the drop down boxes to display data from a database using ASP without puting the drop down boxes in a form...

But now that i want to insert data into the database i cannot do it without using forms, therefore i will put all the drop down boxes and 3 edit boxes into one form with one submit button to insert the data...

swstos...

[Charles]

I'm afraid I must disagree with Stefan here. The form controls are counted among the inline elements. <!ENTITY % inline "#PCDATA | %fontstyle; | %phrase; | %special; | %formctrl;"> And when one considers that the FORM element requires a value for the action attribute - <!ATTLIST FORM
%attrs; -- %coreattrs, %i18n, %events --
action %URI; #REQUIRED -- server-side form handler --
method (GET|POST) GET -- HTTP method used to submit the form--
enctype %ContentType; "application/x-www-form-urlencoded"
accept %ContentTypes; #IMPLIED -- list of MIME types for file upload --
name CDATA #IMPLIED -- name of form for scripting --
onsubmit %Script; #IMPLIED -- the form was submitted --
onreset %Script; #IMPLIED -- the form was reset --
accept-charset %Charsets; #IMPLIED -- list of supported charsets --
> - perhaps it's best to omit the FORM element when using a JavaScript only form. There's also a certain utility in being able to omit the FORM element. Let's say that you've got a drop down box navigation on your page and being a good web author you've designed a JavaScript free, alternative navigation menu. You might want to draw the drop down box with JavaScript and put the alternative in the required NOSCRIPT element. Omitting the FORM element makes drawing the box just a little bit easier.

[Stefan]

Originally posted by khaki
And Stefan... you are wrong. Actually the next "silly thing coming from khaki " is:
I'm rubber and your glue...
k

Apparently that was not the only thing I was wrong about :D

*Note to self - check the facts before jumping to conclusions and other posters *

Sorry khaki and thanks for the correction Charles.

[Nedals]

Originally posted by khaki
As a control, the following drop-down box displays with or without a Form.
Except when you use NS4xx which will NOT display form elements without the form tag.

[khaki]

...also, it's very hard to find a place to post and water your horse in Midtown Manhattan.
Upgrade to a car!

(mumble mumble mumble)
k

[Nedals]

Originally posted by khaki
...also, it's very hard to find a place to post and water your horse in Midtown Manhattan.
Upgrade to a car!
I already have a car, but sometimes I give others a ride and I'm happy to carry a little <form> baggage. :-)

[Geat]

Why do some people find it so hard to understand that just because we like to keep our browsers up-to-date, we still need to develop web sites that are compatible with the old, crappy browsers?

Okay - if we have a guaranteed client base that we know uses IE 6 or whatever, then we go ahead and develop for that. But for sites that will be used by inexperienced users, Netscape diehards or schools, we need to ensure the site will work on them!

[khaki]

Fair enough Geat, but it's not that I don't understand, it's just a pet peeve of mine that anyone who has an old crappy browser (your words, not mine) should have incentive to upgrade. If we keep developing for them, they hold us back instead of us carrying them forward (and which of those two options do you think is the more beneficial overall?).
Also, it doesn't help your argument to mention Netscape die-hards. By that I assume you mean 4dots (I myself use Netscape 7 just so that I can understand it's limitations - and I'm growing rather fond of it at this point). If Netscape die-hards (the 4dot variety) wish to seal their own fate, I say we let em!

As far as schools go - that's a good point. But aside from any type of binding vendor contract agreements (which should still allow for upgrades, I would think), I don't think that schools are any less capable of upgrading (although I would be curious to hear any information to the contrary, since I am only making an assumption on that point myself).

I suppose it is also dependent upon economics, such as if you have a product to sell, you want the largest audience possible - therefore you need to be more inclusive.
If you are not selling (and are also not bound by any advertising/traffic equation) - then maybe you can make some reasonable demands on your visitors to keep current.

Yeah... it's a controversial stance, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it! (wink)
(why do I continually do this to myself? lol)

Still feeling feisty from yesterday, and enjoying my new Netscape browser..
k

[Geat]

Believe me, I wish that everyone did upgrade! It would make life a lot easier and allow us to fully utilise features such as DOM, and make web pages a lot easier to develop.

It's a good point that these refusers are indeed holding us back, but it's a bit of a catch 22 situation really...

I'd happily take your side of this argument if I didn't work for a company that has to support these old browsers.

And yeah, by NS die-hards I did mean the 4 dot bunch...

[Charles]

Originally posted by Geat
Believe me, I wish that everyone did upgrade! It would make life a lot easier and allow us to fully utilise features such as DOM, and make web pages a lot easier to develop. With this one exception, if you follow the rules your page will work on all borwsers. Worried about browsers that don't support the W3C DOM?6.3 Ensure that pages are usable when scripts, applets, or other programmatic objects are turned off or not supported. If this is not possible, provide equivalent information on an alternative accessible page. [Priority 1]
For example, ensure that links that trigger scripts work when scripts are turned off or not supported (e.g., do not use "javascript:" as the link target). If it is not possible to make the page usable without scripts, provide a text equivalent with the NOSCRIPT element, or use a server-side script instead of a client-side script, or provide an alternative accessible page as per checkpoint 11.4. Refer also to guideline 1.That's an easy rule to follow, and you end up with a page that works all the time.

[Geat]

But you've got to admit that it would be nice, in an ideal world, for a web page to appear and function exactly the same on every browser?

Well done on the signature by the way - much better!

[khaki]

Hey Charles, did I inspire you to change your sig after I changed mine? (lol)

No need to answer, I was just tweaking ya (wink). I'm well aware what's behind that (insert dramatic sountrack here).

(and hmmm. Mine seems so much less..... serious than yours. Note to self: get serious)

Dangerous, but not yet serious,
k

[Charles]

Originally posted by Geat
But you've got to admit that it would be nice, in an ideal world, for a web page to appear and function exactly the same on every browser?I couldn't disagree more strongly. The whole point of the web is device and platform independence. If all web pages looked alike then they wouldn't be of much use to the blind.

[Geat]

You misunderstand me mate - I mean a page you develop looks the same on all browsers (i.e. how you intend it to look), not all pages look the same.

[Charles]

Originally posted by khaki
Hey Charles, did I inspire you to change your sig after I changed mine?No, I was just responding to a complaint. And I've been annoyed with it myself for some time.

[Charles]

Originally posted by Geat
You misunderstand me mate - I mean a page you develop looks the same on all browsers (i.e. how you intend it to look), not all pages look the same. Forgive me, I mis-typed myself. I understand your position and have dedicated my life to opposing it.

[khaki]

No, I was just responding to a complaint. And I've been annoyed with it myself for some time.

I was pretty annoyed with you yesterday too - but I'm over that now (wink)

You may not realize this, but this is the 1st time you have ever directly responded to anything that I have said to you. I know I can be silly at times, but a girl doesn't like to be ignored y'know (thanks for paying a little attention to me this morning. wink)

a happily suprised...
k

[Geat]

Is that photo really you Khaki?

[Charles]

Please forgive me, I take up enough of this board's resources as it is and I try to keep my postings to a minimum. But if I'm not mistaken, that was the first time you've directed a question at me.

[khaki]

Please forgive me, I take up enough of this board's resources as it is and I try to keep my postings to a minimum. But if I'm not mistaken, that was the first time you've directed a question at me.

oh... (always so serious).

You might be right Charles. But now that I know you cannot resist direct questions I'll pocket that information and whip it out when I need it.

By the way, I finaly figured out how to do the quote thing. I figured that if I'm gonna be called a Webmaster on this forum, I had better know what the heck I'm doing.
Wouldn't you agree, Charles?

Smarter than the average bear,
k

[khaki]

Yes Geat

please be honest - what did you think it was (seriously)

Suddenly serious,
k

[Geat]

I don't know - it's just here in Britain women that are involved with computing aren't famous for their good looks! (In general)

[khaki]

Geate wrote:
I don't know - it's just here in Britain women that are involved with computing aren't famous for their good looks! (In general)

oh... well I'm sure that you haven't met all of ‘em yet (we're making strides on ALL of the continents y'know. lol!).

That was very sweet of you to say.
I thought that you were gonna say that I looked like the Save the Universe from destruction Doctor, so either you got wise after reading my sig, or you answered honestly.

Either way, I'm thinking maybe I'll change the avatar to a Picasso that I particularly enjoy instead: "Portrait de Francoise"
(I attached it here, although I've never attached anything on this forum before, so I don't know if it will work).
Obviously I'll need to shrink it down, but all of the chatter about my picture is not as flattering to me as some might think - especially cause I have to constantly defend or explain it. Gosh, it's just a picture of me. My words. My picture. ME!

Sorry Geat, that little rant wasn't really directed all at you (but I DID see that YOU were the one who got Charles to change his sig, so you are proving to be quite the little catalyst, aren't you?! wink).

Time to fire-up Fireworks.

Soon to be Francoise,
k

[Geat]

Considering I don't know what Save the Universe from destruction Doctor is, I think it's safe to assume that my comment was genuine, without any "wising up"...

And true, I haven't met them all yet - not that there's that many. On my Uni course of 110 people, 4 were women! So jealous of the journalism guys - 80% women on that course!

Perhaps I should stop using up forum space with inane chatter now...

[gautam]

HI
do anybody have any idea about this link exchange forms or like that.,
I have came across a couple of sites and found it that they have this reciprocal link exchange forms .Some sites have them and some dont have them
say for example i have come across a simple site http://greetings.123india.com which dont have a linking form or like taht but inspite of that they have a huge data of partner sites is it possible?

[NogDog]

HI
do anybody have any idea about this link exchange forms or like that.,
I have came across a couple of sites and found it that they have this reciprocal link exchange forms .Some sites have them and some dont have them
say for example i have come across a simple site http://greetings.123india.com which dont have a linking form or like taht but inspite of that they have a huge data of partner sites is it possible?
Why are you replying to an old thread with a totally unrelated question?