Hi Guys & Girls
You revewed my webb site for me and gave me hell it has changed a lot now so i would appreciate some new reviews.
And please give constctive reviews not 1 word like crap that some spoty 13yr old gave me last time when his site was the pits!!
Many thanks
Andy
www.shopontheinternet.co.uk
designer4life
07-24-2004, 02:00 PM
First of all, the site looks plain. Try making your site more interesting.
Secondly, your site looks unorganized. I would suggest using a two or three column design.
Andy H
07-24-2004, 02:46 PM
Thanks good advice just what i am looking for.
But what do you suggest to make it not plain.
And by column are you sugesting putting the pics into columns
Many thanks more to come I hope.
Andy
designer4life
07-24-2004, 08:31 PM
i'd attached a diagram of website design that would help your site look organize.
Some things that will make your site more interesting is a nice logo, banner, graphics, etc..
spufi
07-25-2004, 06:03 AM
Since you are making a site for shopping, I would suggest you take a long look at other popular sites that offer shopiing on them and see what they are doing and get ideas from them. Amazon would be a good place to start. :p I would also suggest a small book called "Don't Make Me Think" because it pretty much covers many of the things I would hit upon. After your page loaded I was like, "Ok, what the heck?" I felt like I needed to scroll down to get everything I might need. I shouldn't be scrolling for anything. Using a multi column will help in this. Also add colors so people will know where to focus their eyes at first, second, etc. We don't really look, or read a web page, we scan them. Help direct people as they scan your site.
Your code could use a major cleaning. You have no Doctype, or <html> tag. You have multiple <body> tags. "Designing with Web Standards" would be a good book to pick up too.
Andy H
07-25-2004, 03:45 PM
Gulp i will look at all those sites and get back to you thanks for taking the time to advise.
Andy
MstrBob
07-25-2004, 04:12 PM
Well, terrible coding aside, I definately would NOT buy anything from your site. Why? Well, I mean no offense with this, but it looks like it was made by someone who learned HTML a week ago. The page demonstrates no particular design or skill by the designer. When a person goes to a store, especially online, they look see a well thought-out setting which demonstrates that money and time was put into it and it's reliable. Reliable.
You're also using paypal. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with paypal, but considering this is an online store, you should have your own basket system/payment options. Which means SSL (Secure Socket Layering). Of which I wouldn't trust by the look of the site.
If you really expect to do any buisness on the website, it at leaste needs a major revision. Columns, as
designer4life said, are a must. You're using HTML. Why? You'd be much, much better off using a server side language/database combination (such as PHP/MySQL, ASP/MSSQL, and many others). You have to hand code each product, which isn't very cost-effective. With a Server side language and database, your pages can all be dynamic and hence it drastically cuts the time it takes to add, edit, remove items.
Unless your website was that of say, a personal artist or underground band offering their CD for sale, or some craftsperson's personal site, I wouldn't touch it. It needs a professional look for it to be trusted, methinks.
Andy H
07-25-2004, 04:51 PM
Hi well it is a good job the buying public dont have your opinion. This site takes money and gets good feedback from the buying public
and it is they that matter most!
As for a shopping basket well thats great for people with money to burn when i enquired they wanted £200.00 to set up and £15.00 a month and 4% comision.
Paypal costs 4% so i make a proffit and not some gready bank.
As for my html i dont claim to be an expert i just make money and that is all i claim to do.
My html was learnt by reading a book and not at some college although i do hope to do a course soon, that might help.
Sorry i have never heard of (such as PHP/MySQL, ASP/MSSQL, and many others).
But as i say the aim is to make money and not be the worlds best webb designer.
It would be nice mstrbob if i could see some of your work then i would now if you are a good designer.
I will find out more about what you have said as that is what i am here for.
In my experiance with both my webb sites they get lots of stick from webb guys but the paying public part with there cash and that is my job done.
Very many thanks keep the harsh words comming it makes me try to learn more.
Andy:D
zingmatter
07-26-2004, 10:08 AM
Just being pedantic:
the internet is the world wide web and we are web, not webb, people.
Also, on your page you state:
We deliver to you without having to leave the comfort of your own home!
Why are you in my home? :eek:
Anyway, as far as you already making money from this site, good for you! But have you considered you could be making a hell of a lot more money if the other 80% of visitors who looked at your site and thought "no thanks" didn't hit the Back button. Investing some time to make you site more useable and professional will pay dividends. Likewise, people are often uneasy about online purchases and using a more reputable and safer payment system will again increase your profit. As for the banks making a profit - who cares if your profits increase 300%?
Think of it like this...if you opened a shop on the High Street, you would want it to look as good as possible. More people will walk in through the door if they thought it wasn't being run by Trotter's Independent Traders. I'm not saying you're dodgy, but you present web page (notice, only one 'b' there) might give that impression to a lot of potential (and lost) customers.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Andy H
07-26-2004, 10:27 AM
Even Delboy made a £1000,000 but i do take your point.
The sad story is.
I can not cross the chanel without a boat but i can not get a boat till i cross the chanel.
(Duty free of course??)
Thanks great coments.
Andy
(Delboy Junior)
MstrBob
07-26-2004, 11:35 AM
Well, not taking a college course is no excuse, in my opinion. I've had no formal education whatsoever with webdesign, as is the case with many on these forums (if not most). Since I'm not a professional, I don't create many websites. But if you must, for some reason, here's two current:
The last one is my personal and I will do more once I finish my blog which I'm coding.
That aside, zingmatter is absolutely right. People are more uneasy with online purchases than, probably, any other form. Stores are a bit more solid, and even telphone orders people at least feel like better because they are talking to a Human Being. Since a website lacks human interaction, one needs to make their website as warm, friendly, helpful, and inviting as possible. There's a huge potential to make giganitic profits online, mainly because of the conveinence and huge audience.
But since the web can be so informal, it makes people uncomfortable. Your website needs to take people in, say "It's okay. You're safe now. You're here - relax and buy something." If it's friendly and interactive, looks visually appealing, and generally looks like a lot of time/labor was spent on it, than people feel a lot more at ease. When they're comfortable and confidant, they'll spend. But if it looks shifty and thrown together - people will be a lot more hesitant. Now, of course you have users. If your out there and advertise, you'll get users. And remember the huge audience? There's always someone. But wouldn't you like to expand it into something grand? Despite what you may think, even if you were to use something like paypal, a well designed website can dramatically increase its usage.
Look at it this way. You're on a street. On one side is a nicely decorated store, which is easy to use and look perfessional. On the other side is a scruffy-looking street vendor. Now, of course people will buy from the street vendor, but many more people will go to that nice shop.
SERVER SIDE LANGUAGES
PHP (http://us4.php.net/manual/en/faq.general.php) - Hypertext Pre-Proscessor (recursive acronym)
ASP (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/nhp/default.asp?contentid=28000522)- Active Server Pages
ASP.net (http://www.asp.net/whitepaper/whyaspnet.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1) - The latest incarnation of ASP, totally different and revamped.
JSP (http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html#1) - Java Server Pages
DATABASES
MySQL (http://www.mysql.com/products/mysql/)
MS SQL (http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/overview/default.asp)
Oracle (http://www.oracle.com/database/)
the tree
07-26-2004, 11:57 AM
As for my html i dont claim to be an expert i just make money and that is all i claim to do.
If you intend to make money then that would make you a profesional, so it might be an idea to use a profensial standard of webdesign, firstly by using valid html and secondly by strething your ability a bit.
Sorry i have never heard of (such as PHP/MySQL, ASP/MSSQL, and many others). Php and Asp are server side languages, they do all types of things that html can't becuase it processes in the server.
Mysql and Mssql are database technologies, I don't know enough about databases to recomend one over the over but I typicaly wont trust anything with 'ms' in the name.
Now about your design, what designer4life showed would be a could model to work from and could be achived very easy using some simple CSS but I wouldn't recomend continueing without using a sever side langauge, if you intend to learn quickly then php.
I don't like the use of buttons, whats wrong with text? I really don't like the sheer amount of scrolling that I have to do. As for the adverts, if they are payperclick then there pretty useless as I can't see them until I've scrolled all the way down.
It would be nice mstrbob if i could see some of your work then i would now if you are a good designer.If you want to asses his abilities then see his signature, I wouldn't say that he is the greatest designer to ever be born but he is certainly pretty good.
I can not cross the chanel without a boat but i can not get a boat till i cross the chanel.
I guess your saying that you need money to make money in order to make money in which case, not true so long as you have enough for your domain name and hosting then the rest is up to you, you don't need to know everything there is to know about html, css and server sides but the more you know the better.
Andy H
07-26-2004, 12:43 PM
Hi
I was so proud of my little shop and you have shocked me with some of the answers.
After looking at my shop i still can not understand whre i have gone wrong and it looks like TIT ("Troters indipendant traders" for those not from the uk)
But i have saved all the coments and links you have given to me and will study them as i get time.
Many thanks for taking time out to help me i will work 0n it and come back for more words...
But once again thanks.
Unless you think otherwise i will close this tag on Wednesday.
Andy
MstrBob
07-26-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by the tree
If you want to asses his abilities then see his signature, I wouldn't say that he is the greatest designer to ever be born...
Oh, that's cold :p
...but he is certainly pretty good.
Hmm... better. :cool: I readily admit I'm much better with the coding than the design. For me, making my PHP/MySQL forum was easier than designing my site.
But I can't see how you could run an online store without a server side language/database. Basically, this is how the vast majority of online stores work:
They use a database. Personally, I like MySQL. SQL is very steady, tested, powerful database, and it's FREE. Oracle can set you back. Databases (at least for SQL, never worked with Oracle) divide information into tables. The bare minimum for a full online store would be 2 (though there easily can be hundreds). One table stores the product info (picture, name, description, price, and unique id at least.). The other table stores user information (username, password, email, name, shipping address, credit card, credit card number, ect.).
In order to intereact with the database, a server side language is used. I personally use and prefer PHP, as it once again is a well tested, high performance, open-source, free language. There is also, however, ASP, ASP.net, JSP, and others. Your product pages contact the database and display the information from it. Thus you can edit/add/remove products without changing any of your pages, simple edit the database. You can create a user login system using the database and a secure connection (SSL, ie: https://) and also create a basket system using the database to store whats in their basket.
That's the basic layout. Of course, unless you really know what your doing rather well, or hire a professional, it's best to stay away from the shopping cart. You're storing people's names, addresses and credit card numbers - information you and users don't want exposed. But even using pay pal for transactions, the database is imperative to saving time.
If your doing this all on your own, know that it will take a while. I've been doing this for roughly 3 years, and I'd only say I'm near mediocre. It takes awhile, which is why professionals are good. It takes money to make money.
spufi
07-28-2004, 08:00 PM
I think the poll numbers speak for themselves. If you are thinking, "Hey, at least I'm making money off of this," then you should be kicking yourself seeing just how little money you are getting at compared to what's out there. I could put in not even a day's worth of work and your site would bring in at least four times what you are now.
Andy H
07-29-2004, 03:58 AM
Thats a strong statment what would you do that could bring 4 times as many sales through the door.
That would help pay a few bills.
spufi
07-31-2004, 06:13 AM
I didn't say by what time frame it would happen. :) Basically just about what everybody else has said is what I would do. Cleaner code means a better search engine results, which in the end means more hits. I would your site an actual layout versus just all your stuff being center. Add some color, logo, better navigation, etc, and suddenly people start to think you actually put some time and effort into the site. Once they do that, then they start to trust you. Your little poll here currently shows otherwise. I will also agree with whoever mentioned you using html pages. If you continue to do that, then making wholesale changes in your design, which you need, is going to be a major pain to do so. Using some server side code and a database is going to shrink down the size of your site quite a bit.
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