Sonora Cabinets v2

[Jona]

Hey guys,

I've redesigned Sonora Cabinets (http://sonoracabinets.com/), and was wondering if you guys could take a look and give me some courteous criticism. ;)

Thanks.

[Nevermore]

I like it, although you seem a little addicted to those big header images. :D Not sure if that's a bad thing. The only criticism I have is that the 404 error page tells me my IP and browser, and I don't see the point...

[Jona]

Originally posted by Nevermore
I like it, although you seem a little addicted to those big header images. :D Not sure if that's a bad thing. The only criticism I have is that the 404 error page tells me my IP and browser, and I don't see the point...

I think I did over-do it, but the original graphic was so immense, I didn't want to shrink it down too small. It's only 300 pixels high. ;)

Oh yea, that 404 thing... Did that like forever ago when I was learning what the heck SSI was and all. Need to reset it to default, lol.

[davidbrent]

Brilliant Jona, one query, is the header text meant to be not recognisable. Maybe it could be a little contrasting/readable. Anyway good job!

Best Wishes,
David

[Jona]

Originally posted by davidbrent
Brilliant Jona, one query, is the header text meant to be not recognisable. Maybe it could be a little contrasting/readable. Anyway good job!

Thanks, I'll look into putting some kind of outline on the text or something...

[Jona]

David, I've changed the header. Is it more readable now?

[Ben Rogers]

Well, I can read it. And I'd like to say _MUCH_ better.

I'd like to say that you need to do more with the navigation, first of all. MAke it stand out a little more, rather than just plain links spaced out pretty.

Also, maybe the tip of that screwdriver could be seen in the content div, tinted, as if it were under glass, like you've done with the navigation div? It would make a nice effect.

The footer could use a little more distinction... but maybe that's just a (bad?) habit of mine.

The faux drop on the right looks a little murky... maybe both could be lightened up a tad?

I don't care for the form layout on the contact page... and, in a similiar vein, since it's static, maybe the services page could be spiffed up a bit with <em>phasis on some words?

I might suggest a new font as well, but that's preference. Anyways, those are my nitpicks. I do like it though. :)

[Neczy]

Looks much nicer then the first design lol. My only gripe is the navigation link color.. way to light.

[Jona]

Heh, well those are great suggestions, Ben. I'll look into some of them, but I dropped short on ideas when it came to the navigation... The site is very lightweight (with the exclusion of graphics), so there's no limit to what can be done to the layout.

[Jona]

Originally posted by Neczy
Looks much nicer then the first design lol. My only gripe is the navigation link color.. way to light.

Hey man, what's the deal? My blog used to be too dark, so you used Omega's layout which had much less contrast on the links (especially once visited), now you're saying mine's too low contrast? :rolleyes:

[Ben Rogers]

Well, you see, my designs are specialer than yours, Jona. Especially the one I did for you... (which needs to be taken down, BTW- it suxx0rs >_<).

As for the navigation, try seperating them with borders first of all, and also instead of font color, try changing both, so it darkens onmouseover, and the color goes lighter.

[soccer362001]

NICE!! Looks good partner.

[davidbrent]

Originally posted by Jona
David, I've changed the header. Is it more readable now?

Well Jona the header is looking superb. Doubly Nice job. Another if what unfair gripe. Navigation, the white[ish] background could use a similar colour to the actualy buttons. I am not big on the distance apart. Fill it up with random links lik e"Site Mape" et cetera. The height is very big but i think i can adapt.

Good Job!
Best Wishes,
David

[Jona]

I've changed all the graphics again, extended the screw driver, and modified the navigation. Look better now?

[Ben Rogers]

The nav links need to be a little bit wider, and the underline needs to go. Also, maybe lighten them up so they match the nav bg..? Finally, I think the right shadow got tarded... I thot you were using opacity to create the drop shadow effect, as in a translucent shadow on PS, that was later saved... O.o

[Jona]

Blech, I'm not modifyin' the dropshadows again. Too much work for too little of a change. Why you so picky? :p I think the links look fine, and I want the screw driver to be visible in the background of the navbar. The underlines also make it look better, in my opinion. So there are all my excuses for disregarding your post, Ben. ;)

[Ben Rogers]

Mm. Well, as long as you read it at all, I'm fine with it. :D

EDIT: Mandatory "I'm just kidding" smiley...

[Jona]

Originally posted by omega
Mm. Well, as long as you read it at all, I'm fine with it.

FOOMCROTFL! Satisfied that easily, eh? Will keep that in mind. :D

[Neczy]

looks much better. :)

[davidbrent]

FOOMCROTFL? Sorry was that English?

[Jona]

Originally posted by Neczy
looks much better. :)

Thankoo. :D

Originally posted by davidbrent
FOOMCROTFL? Sorry was that English?

Does no one know what it means? Yes, it's English. FOOMC (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?p=dict&String=exact&Acronym=FOOMC)ROTFL (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?p=dict&String=exact&Acronym=ROTFL). ;)

[Paul Jr]

I’m really not a fan of that quirky little pattern thing on the left drop-shadow, and, as Omega said, the right drop-shadow went all weird — fix it.

Other than that, I like it. Much better than the last one. :D Question: Where’d you get the masthead? Some stock-photography site?

[Jona]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
I’m really not a fan of that quirky little pattern thing on the left drop-shadow, and, as Omega said, the right drop-shadow went all weird — fix it.

Other than that, I like it. Much better than the last one. :D Question: Where’d you get the masthead? Some stock-photography site?

Thanks, I'll fix that shadow again. (Also, thanks to Ben for suggesting that I change it in the first place. :rolleyes: lol.)

You should know where I got the picture from. ;)

[Ben Rogers]

Well, I thought it was too murky, and that the pattern wasn't showing through enough- I wasn't aware you were using a gradient for the shadow, as opposed to a softened strip of black set at 40 or so opacity over a sold color, like I'd do.

[Jona]

Originally posted by omega
Well, I thought it was too murky, and that the pattern wasn't showing through enough- I wasn't aware you were using a gradient for the shadow, as opposed to a softened strip of black set at 40 or so opacity over a sold color, like I'd do.

Gradients are more flexible, once you're satisfied with what you've got. I agree, though, it wasn't too great at first, either.

[Paul Jr]

You're using a gradient? :eek: Why would you do that? I just create one layer and apply the pattern to it, then create another one over it, apply a dropshadow, then adjust the dropshadow's opacity until it fits just right.

[Ben Rogers]

Exactly! See, Paul knows how to do a dropshadow. ^.^

[Jona]

I did it my way, which is much more flexible because I have more options; it's just something you guys don't know how to do. ;) A dropshadow is a gradient, you just have to know how to use a gradient properly to make it do the same thing. I hate working with so many layers; even if I name them I get them confused.

[sharkey]

Well i think its a big improvement from the last design jona good work.

[Jona]

Thanks, Sharkey. I just improved it a bit more. ;)

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by Jona
I did it my way, which is much more flexible because I have more options; it's just something you guys don't know how to do. ;) A dropshadow is a gradient, you just have to know how to use a gradient properly to make it do the same thing. I hate working with so many layers; even if I name them I get them confused.
I still think it looks weird... and it's way easier to do it with a dropshadow — why do you think they made a dropshadow style in PS? Huh? :rolleyes:

[Jona]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
I still think it looks weird... and it's way easier to do it with a dropshadow — why do you think they made a dropshadow style in PS? Huh? :rolleyes:

For me to have another reason to be stubborn.

[Nevermore]

Originally posted by Jona
For me to have another reason to be stubborn.
Rea-son?

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by Jona
For me to have another reason to be stubborn.
Weirdo.

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by Jona
For me to have another reason to be stubborn.

Definitely not a Freak. :D :D :D :D

[Jona]

Originally posted by omega
Definitely not a freak.

Off topic, but...You know I am thinking about doing something for your birthday.

[Ben Rogers]

Hey, it's not fair to take me out of context now!

[Neczy]

Uh your dropshadow looks deformed, heh.

Why not use the same one from the left, as on the right so it feels a little bit more even? Cuz IMO, it doesnt look too great (the right side)

[Ben Rogers]

Originally posted by Neczy
Uh your dropshadow looks deformed, heh.

Why not use the same one from the left, as on the right so it feels a little bit more even? Cuz IMO, it doesnt look too great (the right side)

THANK you, Neczy! See, Jona?

[Jona]

Look better now? (http://sonoracabinets.com/)

[Ben Rogers]

Much. But what's with that line of a lighter color outside the dark border? Removing that would be a good thing methinks... (attached in pic with arrow pointing at what I'm referring to)

[Jona]

Originally posted by omega
But what's with that line of a lighter color outside the dark border? Removing that would be a good thing methinks... (attached in pic with arrow pointing at what I'm referring to)

I like it like that.

[Ben Rogers]

It severely bothers me...

[Jona]

Originally posted by omega
It severely bothers me...

Happy birthday. :D

[Ben Rogers]

Thanks! *totally forgets about light line outside dark line*

[Neczy]

Yah much better. At least that line is even on both sides :D :p ;)

[Teach]

Hiya.
Can I just ask one question?
Why do you use a set width? I really hate set widths on any site... and with all new accessibility etc surely it's better to use a fluid design?
People nowadays have much bigger monitors and better resolutions, imho the days of 7xx px widths are /way/ over...

Thanks.

[Ben Rogers]

Set widths are ideal for image based designs, and, as long as the text resizes nicely, are perfectly fine. There is no accessibility law against them, and for the average user they're fine. BTW- if you want some statistics, then I'll tell you the ones I got for Project Epsilon, and since Jona has a similiar demographic (I assume) this should relate to him. About 65% = 1024*768, 40%= 800*600 5%= Other.

Now, would a fluid design be ideal for that kind of demographic? Anyways, most fluid designs are ugly, so...

[Neczy]

Originally posted by omega
About 65% = 1024*768, 40%= 800*600 5%= Other.

110%? :p

[Ben Rogers]

Meh. It was a guesstimate. I didn't bother to add up the #s.

[Jona]

Ben, how could you have over 100%? :rolleyes: Edit: didn't see Neczy's post.

Teach, the thoughts you addressed ran through my mind as well, though only for a second; let me elaborate on Omega's comments and add a few of my own. On an average global basis, 86% of users are going to have a screen resolution large enough to avoid a horizontal scrollbar; most of the other percentage have higher or lower resolutions. This isn't uncommon, most of the CSS based layouts use fixed widths in order for them to be more visually appealing; compare, for example, this fluid layout (http://www.tanfa.co.uk/css/layouts/css-multi-column-layout-ap1.asp) and this fluid layout (http://meyerweb.com/) with this fixed layout (http://mezzoblue.com/) and this fixed layout (http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/100/100.css&page=1). Fixed widths offer more graphical flexibility, and save on coding work. It's an overall better choice (http://www.notestips.com/80256B3A007F2692/1/TAIO-5TT34F) in many ways. My header, on a fluid layout, would only show part of the text on some resolutions and would be too small for the containing screen on larger resolutions; I'd have to overlay text seperately. There are, with my design, assorted flaws, but the trick is to make as many as you can as small as you can, rather than perfect one or two and have major problems with the remaining five. Nine times out of ten, the width of the layout will be perfectly viewable. I think it's better to dissatisfy a small percentage of users, yourself included, and have a better layout, than having a dissatisfied client and less excited guests viewing the site.

[Ben Rogers]

I agree with Jona's comments, but I must say, really good fluid layouts are possible- they're just a little... blah. The only example I can offer: http://www.1976design.com/blog/

[Paul Jr]

Better, Jona; now it doesn't look like someone crapped all over that other dropshadow. :D

The more images you have, and the more complex they are, the less likely it is you'll be able to create a fluid layout. I, myself, am in the process of finishing up my own design, which is fixed. There are dropshadows and whatnot everywhere, and I would venture to guess that it's impossible to make it fluid. It is at an acceptable (if it isn't, oh well; I'm not redesigning now) 750px and fits nicely at 800x600, as well as 1024x768.

[Jona]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
Better, Jona; now it doesn't look like someone crapped all over that other dropshadow. :D

For your information, that was not crap. It just so happened to be my own personally designed squiggly!

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by Jona
For your information, that was not crap. It just so happened to be my own personally designed squiggly!
No, no, I was refering to the fact that before, the left dropshadow looked good, but the one on the right looked like it was crapped on. :D I actually didn't even notice you removed the squiggly — you could've kept it; I didn't mind it that much.

[Jona]

I love the squigglies!! I'd probably put it back on, but... I don't want to do any more work on the graphics, lol. And at first, the dropshadow was a little murky, but that was 'cause I had to make it really long for the dark line to fit on properly 'cause the background color overlayed the background pattern...

[davidbrent]

Well i can say im looking forward to Computer Masterminds Version 3!

[Jona]

Originally posted by davidbrent
Well i can say im looking forward to Computer Masterminds Version 3!

It's done, I am just working on purchasing a domain/hosting today, and hopefully have everything else done (looking for assorted reviews by select people) by Monday. ;)

[davidbrent]

Well as the caption beneath my name says, i will be on the review team sharpish. I will rip it to shreads, but knowing your previou Jona, there will be little in effect!