Best/Worst Programs?

[Westoz]

Its been a long while since I last created a webpage, and back then I simply used MS Word, but was far more fluent in html In those days.

I'm about to embark on designing a website again, and was just wondering what html editing programs are considered by the posters here to be both the best and the worst?

Thanks!

[Neczy]

I use dreamweaver code view. I dunno about a worst...maybe notepad/word/textpad.

[sharkey]

whats wrong with notepad neczy ive produced all my sites so far with it and had no problems?

[DaveSW]

the worst is probably anything with microsoft in it's name, though frontpage 2004 is supposed to have improved somewhat. the best imo is html-kit from www.chami.com simply because it's free.

[AdamGundry]

I don't count Word, because it doesn't claim to be a HTML editor (much - I once knew an ICT lecturer who used to teach people to create "webpages" using it) but only has HTML export capabilities. Therefore, FrontPage has got to be the worst - though I haven't seen FP 2004 yet.

I agree with Dave's recommendation of HTML-Kit, but I also quite like using Kate (http://kate.kde.org/) even if it hasn't got as many features. Notepad is capable, if not brilliant - the memory problems in early versions are rather annoying.

Adam

[steelersfan88]

Originally posted by AdamGundry
Notepad is capable, if not brilliant - the memory problems in early versions are rather annoying. The Windows 98 Notepad was very bad for the job. It didn't support the CTRL+A = Select All. It didn't have the status bar, or word wrap options.

The Win XP Notepad actually does everything [I] need except write the code. I will say that HTML Kit was not bad ... except I don't trust programs that write code for me ...

[ajimenez]

Waaaaaaay back when in '95/'96 when I first started writing html I used notepad. There weren't any editors dedicated to html, at least not any good ones. After a while a few good ones started popping up. I remember Hot Dog pro and Homesite. I tried Homesite then and I've been using it ever since. I think it's an excellent editor all its own.

Another one I've used off and on is PSPad. I think it's very good editor considering that's it free.

Just my two cents.

[ilya]

kay dreamweaver and html-kit and notepad are by far my favorite..frontpage sux and so does ms word...yeh true nething MS sux..dont waste ur time on it..

[sharkey]

kay dreamweaver and html-kit and notepad are by far my favorite..frontpage sux and so does ms word...yeh true nething MS sux..dont waste ur time on it..

I wouldnt like peofeo:p to come into this thread just now we've had the ms bashing debate far to many times.

[buntine]

The Win XP Notepad actually does everything [I] need except write the code. I will say that HTML Kit was not bad ... except I don't trust programs that write code for me ...

What about syntax highlighting? Project-based work?

Its only good for very small projects like a personal blog or something similar. It dies a horrible death when used for larger projects.

Where abouts in Perth are you?

Regards.

[pawky]

i use NoteTab Light (http://www.notetab.com/) its free and i think it is very good :)

[davidbrent]

Dreamweaver reigns in my humble opinion. I have a school ICT teacher friend who is told to teach the kids to create web sites using Microsoft Publisher 98. It's not his fualt, it's the syllabus!

Best Wishes,
David

[steelersfan88]

Originally posted by buntine
What about syntax highlighting? Project-based work?HTML-Kit doesn't work with my FTP program, and takes longer to load than Notepad. Syntax highlighting is good though, I did forget to mention that one.

[Stephen Philbin]

My own personal favourite is Araneae (http://www.ornj.net/software/araneae/) . Simple, fast, free, effective.

[akadis]

if you are on a mac try SubEthaEdit (http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/) its free, loads quickly and has syntax highlighting for a bunch of languages

[rsd]

UltraEdit RULES!!!!!
It has a TON of features including FTP, customizable syntax highlighting, macros, spellcheck, and hundreds more.
I don't know what I'd do without it.

[rhsunderground]

i approve of syn text editor (http://syn.sourceforge.net/). it's kinda like a dreamweaver-lite, without the templates, WYSIWYG, or premade scripts.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by ilya
kay dreamweaver and html-kit and notepad are by far my favorite..frontpage sux and so does ms word...yeh true nething MS sux..dont waste ur time on it.. Blasphemer. I bet you have only used those ms products then. Ever used anything in the .net studio, or ever used any of their server products?

The new front page is quite nice from what I hear. I am a dream weaver man myself.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by Mr Herer
My own personal favourite is Araneae (http://www.ornj.net/software/araneae/) . Simple, fast, free, effective. And you have a notepad avatar :D

[Stephen Philbin]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
And you have a notepad avatar :D Hehehehe. Yeah. I did wonder how long it would be 'till anyone picked up on that. I would have the araneae icon, but it's just too small and anonymous for it to look like anything other than a grey dot. So I just stick with the next closest software and the one I started out with. Notepad. :D

[Paul Jr]

Homesite all the way! Bruhaha! Homesite can do all that I need it to do. Homesite is awesome.

[IncaWarrior]

I usually stick to notepad most of the time since it's easy to open out of leechftp. For bigger pages I use the code view of dreamweaver (it's really pretty good).

[Westoz]

Originally posted by buntine


Its only good for very small projects like a personal blog or something similar. It dies a horrible death when used for larger projects.

Where abouts in Perth are you?


Thanks for the replies everyone

Im in the Northern suburbs, enjoying this fantastic run of weather we've had the last week :)

[buntine]

Thats an understatement! Im also in the Northern Suburbs. Padbury, to be exact.

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

i use SciTE from http://www.scintilla.org or notepad, but i think the color syntax in SciTE is great and you can set it differently for each programmating language that it recognizes, means quite a lot.

dreamweaver is too big i think, like when u wanna watch a source it kinda needs a few seconds to start depending on the computer and slows down everything.

btw if u try SciTE and find out how to have many different files opened and change fils with the tabs that should be on the top, i saw it once, but i cant find how to activate that option, so if u find that out, pliz tell me.

regards,

[zingmatter]

It's horses for courses...

if you're hand-coding then for me Homesite is supreme. If you're more wysiwyg (and who isn't from time to time) then I've not seen better then DreamWeaver. And Notepad gets used a lot for tweaking pages too.

If you want a great steaming pile of dung then Word, Netscape composer (is that still going? - ain't looked since NS3), and current versions of Frontpage.

[ajimenez]

Homesite all the way! Bruhaha! Homesite can do all that I need it to do. Homesite is awesome.
I concur.

I was starting to think that I was the only Homesite user in this forum :D

[buntine]

God, I hope thats sarcasm.

[ajimenez]

Me? Why would I be sarcastic?

[pawky]

that like to use notepad, u should definitely try NoteTab Light out. It is basically notepad w/ more to it :P tabbing (like mozilla too ;P) and it can be programmed if u want to get into that too, it is completely customizable.

[buntine]

Well, I think you'll find that Paul was being sarcastic. Considering HomeSite was voted one of the worst software packages to ever be created. ;)

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by pawky
that like to use notepad, u should definitely try NoteTab Light out. It is basically notepad w/ more to it :P tabbing (like mozilla too ;P) and it can be programmed if u want to get into that too, it is completely customizable. Notepad is crap because it does not have syntax hylighting, line numbers, and intellitext. Can pawky offer that? Tabs are not a reason that motivates my to use an editor.

[Stephen Philbin]

The Araneae that I use has customisable syntax highlighting, line count, tabbing (like browsers do), optional default document tomplate (so every new file you start can have the DTD you use most often already in place along with head and body sections or infact just about anything you like! :D ) and a good number of other features too. :D

I really can't think of anything more I'd want from it. Well...... maybe a "you're doing it wrong you tit. This is the correct syntax" feature might come in handy.

(And why the chuff do I keep hitting Ctrl + "S" whenever I finish writing out a post!? :D )

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

(And why the chuff do I keep hitting Ctrl + "S" whenever I finish writing out a post!?
this happens to me too!;)
not this time tho!

[buntine]

I do it every time I finish a sentance!

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

pretty good programming reflex, at least you wont have to type all again if ur coding program crashes!:p

[buntine]

Exactly! It happens too often.

[Stephen Philbin]

Yeah man. It's a deeply ingrained reflex now lol. I remember close to when I started html. I took all day writing out about 20kb of nested tables only to have my computer lock up and lose it all. D'oh!

Meh. I guess it was just the god of CSS being kind in a cruel way. ;) Well whatever it was, I never made that page again and I never needed reminding to save again. :D

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by buntine
Exactly! It happens too often. well some IDEs have auto save built in. Its a great feature, I wish dream weaver had it. I do not have problems with the IDE crashing, but I have had a brown out in the middle of my codeing in which my pc restarted.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by buntine
Well, I think you'll find that Paul was being sarcastic. Considering HomeSite was voted one of the worst software packages to ever be created. ;)
Wait, are you being sarcastic…? I really do like Homesite. I've tried some free code editors, but there was always something I didn't like. Then I downloaded a trial of Homesite, and I was hooked. I've been using it ever since.

[buntine]

I feel sorry for you.

[Paul Jr]

Ya dun lost me there, feller. Homesite is jest fine fer what I gots t'do. What's so bad about it? Eh? Nothin'!!!

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by Paul Jr
Ya dun lost me there, feller. Homesite is jest fine fer what I gots t'do. What's so bad about it? Eh? Nothin'!!! ONLY EVERYTHING!!! I know nothing about homesite, hopefully buntine will backup my arguement.

[buntine]

Its the worst WYSIWYG editor available. And its so old that the enging produces horrible HTML.

[Paul Jr]

Uh, G? We obviously aren't talking about the same program here. Homesite isn't a WYSIWYG editor, and it produces no code (well, very little; Ctrl+B inserts <b> or <strong>, ect.) unless you type the stuff in. And it isn't old -- I got Homesite five a few months ago when it was new, and now they have Homesite 5.5 or somethin', and maybe even newer versions.

I think yer lost, fella.

[buntine]

Must be... What was that old Macromedia program?

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by buntine
Must be... What was that old Macromedia program? http://www.macromedia.com/software/homesite/
yes.

I am a dream weaver man myself... I do not see why anyone would use a more lightweight ide instead of dreamweaver.

[buntine]

I dont use HTML anymore. But if I did, I would use HTML-Kit or DW.

Sorry about 'dissin' you for using HomeSite. Does anybody know the editor that im referring to? Its the REALLY bad one that was popular a few (about 5) years ago.

Regards.

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
http://www.macromedia.com/software/homesite/
yes.

I am a dream weaver man myself... I do not see why anyone would use a more lightweight ide instead of dreamweaver.
surely because of the price if one buys it "legally".dw is almost 5 time more expensive than HomeSite 5.5.
didnt try homesite, but it obiously use less memory.
since its a code only editor, and if u dont like wysiwyg-eds, than it might even be better than dw.no?

[Paul Jr]

I don't need DW, and for the price I'm not about to just go out and buy it when I'm not going to use over half of the features. Homesite provides all I need, and then some (code templates; you can insert small blocks of code via hotkey, and all sorts of other nifty things), and it was under 100 bucks. I really can't afford -- nor do I even want -- to get DW. Thus far, I've seen nothing that warrents the spending of, what? 500 bucks?

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

but paul, is this program really worth the 100$ it costs?what additional features has it compared to the several free editors?

[Paul Jr]

For me it is worth it. HTML-Kit may have just as many features, or even more, but it comes with lots of things I don't need. Homesite just seems a lot cleaner to me. It has everything I need, and some more stuff which is very handy, but nothing I don't -- no useless crap to clutter up my workspace. I've used HTML-Kit, but I didn't like it.

I think Homesite is worth the $100 more than DW is worth the $500-something, but that's just my opinion.


Note: The most recent version of DW I've used is, I think, 4.

Originally posted by buntine
Must be... What was that old Macromedia program?
Could it be Homestead? I heard someone mention Homestead in another post; it kind of sounds like Homesite…

[PeOfEo]

home site probably lacks the server side support of dw though. Thats one of the major plusses of dw, it has excellent asp, asp.net, php, cold fusion, etc, support.


Homestead was/is a really crappy host that charges a lot for crap... no server side support what so ever for a hefty price.
http://www.homestead.com/

[buntine]

I was sure that it was HomeSite. Does it have Syntax Hightlighting for server-side languages? and Java - does it support Java?

Can you setup projects like in JCreator FrontPage and DW?

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by buntine
I was sure that it was HomeSite. Does it have Syntax Hightlighting for server-side languages? and Java - does it support Java?

Can you setup projects like in JCreator FrontPage and DW? Thats where I always thought it failed.

Jcreator is what I used for my jawa (I had an asian teacher with a strong accent and she said jawa, not java).

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
home site probably lacks the server side support of dw though. Thats one of the major plusses of dw, it has excellent asp, asp.net, php, cold fusion, etc, support.
Not sure I follow. Homesite supports multiple server-side languages -- PHP, ASP/.net, JSP, CF, et cetera, et cetera.

Originally posted by buntine
I was sure that it was HomeSite. Does it have Syntax Hightlighting for server-side languages? and Java - does it support Java?
Yes, it does have syntax highlighting for server-side languages. As to whether or not it supports Java, I couldn't say.

Originally posted by buntine
Can you setup projects like in JCreator FrontPage and DW?
I don't know about setting up projects in JCreator or DW, but I'm quite sure you can in Homesite -- I've never done it myself, however.

[PeOfEo]

I thought homesite was always geared toward client side, thats what I heard somewhere atleast. I did not know it did syntax hylighting for server side scripts etc.

[DocileWalnut]

Homesite was a program originally made by a company called Allaire which went out of business and was bought by Macromedia. Macromedia continuted releasing HomeSite until version 5.5. It no longer is sold or produced by macromedia.


Homestead (http://www.homestead.com) used to be a free service for people with little to no experience in web design. Back when I used it, it featured a web-based WYSIWYG editor which you would use to place premade elements in your page. It was a fairly easy and reliable service until it was turned into an overpriced pay service.


Dreamweaver's good if you're trying to juggle a MySQL Database, FTP access, a testing server, and want to roll out new pages very quickly.

Something I'm dismayed to see is that nobody took the time to mention Adobe GoLive (http://www.adobe.com/products/golive/newfeatures.html), the Adobe equivalent of Dreamweaver. Sure, it doesn't compare to Dreamweaver, but it's sure a hell of a lot better than Frontpage. Death to whomever uses that, by the way.


My personal choice is Zantii's CPad (http://www.zantii.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=0&func=selectcat&cat=2). Customizable syntax highlighting, support for like 200000 languages, templates, small memory footprint, and quick startup time. Another really handy feature is that it recognizes linefeeds from text files made on other OSes. For instance, when I open a linux-made text file in notepad, it's all scrunched up into one long line, whereas CPad reads the breaks.

I also use dreamweaver when I'm lazy and don't want to take the time to code a table.

EDIT: added links
EDIT2: Oh, and I'm new here and stuff. My first post. Hi!

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by DocileWalnut
Homesite was a program originally made by a company called Allaire which went out of business and was bought by Macromedia. Macromedia continuted releasing HomeSite until version 5.5. It no longer is sold or produced by macromedia.
Well that's handy to know, but kind of disappointing -- Homesite is really cool!

Originally posted by DocileWalnut
My personal choice is Zantii's CPad (http://www.zantii.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=0&func=selectcat&cat=2). Customizable syntax highlighting, support for like 200000 languages, templates, small memory footprint, and quick startup time. Another really handy feature is that it recognizes linefeeds from text files made on other OSes. For instance, when I open a linux-made text file in notepad, it's all scrunched up into one long line, whereas CPad reads the breaks.
I don't think I've ever heard of CPad, so I'ma go download it right now and try it out. ;)

Originally posted by DocileWalnut
EDIT2: Oh, and I'm new here and stuff. My first post. Hi!
Salutations! Welcome! :)

[PeOfEo]

200000 langs... thats a lot. I think you made that number up :p. The new front page is supposed to be very good from what I have heard. I hate the old versions, but I have heard great things about the newest vestion.

[Paul Jr]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
200000 langs... thats a lot. I think you made that number up :p.
Nah, it really supports all those languages -- even D-- :D :D :D

Originally posted by PeOfEo
The new front page is supposed to be very good from what I have heard. I hate the old versions, but I have heard great things about the newest vestion.
Dude! All versions of FP are terrible! They are aevil!

[buntine]

FP 2004 is the best I have used. It has much better support for everything (especially FTP, XML and Web Services) than anything else on the market.

[Paul Jr]

I thought the newest version was FrontPage 2005? Ah well, I've never used FP, and I never want to.

I downloaded CPad -- I still like Homesite better. ;)

[ajimenez]

Originally posted by DocileWalnut
Homesite was a program originally made by a company called Allaire which went out of business and was bought by Macromedia. Macromedia continuted releasing HomeSite until version 5.5. It no longer is sold or produced by macromedia.
Actually it's still being sold by Macromedia because I just recently updated my version to 5.5. Whether or not they'll continue developing it I don't know. But I'm glad that all the confusion about Homesite and Homestead is cleared up.

Like almost everyone else here that I don't necessarily need to quote, I agree that it's probably one of the best editors out there for web development. And I think it's certainly well worth the hundred dollars. Especially if you're a serious web developer.

[zingmatter]

There's still a free version of Homesite (the original pre-Macromedia) somewhere out there. It's what I used till I started on the more extensive Macromedia version.

Ahh...here it is...
http://www.webattack.com/get/homesitefree.shtml

[Exuro]

Originally posted by DaveSW
the best imo is html-kit from www.chami.com simply because it's free.
I love Html-Kit and I use it all the time :)! But, what does imo stand for???

[ajimenez]

imo usually stands for 'in my opinion'.

Sometimes imho (in my honest opinion -- what? as opposed to dishonest opinion??) is sometimes used too.

[Exuro]

Originally posted by ajimenez
imo usually stands for 'in my opinion'.
Oooooooooh... I thought it was an acronym like WYSIWYG or something :p! Well, thanks for clearing that up for me ajimenez! Now I feel stupid (see my signature)!

[ajimenez]

No prob... :D