html

[siree]

hi guys,
can a frame be inserted into a table

[pyro]

If you want to insert a frame into a table, you'd be best off using an iframe, something like this:

<table>
<tr>
<td>
<iframe src="your.htm" name="test" width="500" height="500"></iframe>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

[Zach Elfers]

If the browser doesn't support iframes, you can insert alternate text in between the <iframe> and </iframe> tags.

[PeOfEo]

you should use an Iframe like the others said but for future reference just about nything you can think of can be crammed into a table cell. (besides annoying vml shapes that for some reason overlap the tables side when I try to use them grrr.)

[Charles]

And also for future reference:From the HTML 4.01 Specification:
Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#h-11.1

[PeOfEo]

But... style sheets are not yet supported by all browser which may also cause browsers, wait a year for them to get more widly accepted and Ill make the switch, but by then a new version of css will be out and that won't be supported by older browsers

[nkaisare]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
But... style sheets are not yet supported by all browser which may also cause browsers, wait a year for them to get more widly accepted and Ill make the switch, but by then a new version of css will be out and that won't be supported by older browsers
That is a misleading statement. For most web-page designs, CSS-positioning will not break. Of course there are issues with browsers not rendering things exactly the way they should... but by and large, all 5+ generation browsers (IE 5, NS 6 and later) do a good job.

[PeOfEo]

Well Ill get out of my table mode soon. After this current project that I am working on (log in + registation + forum) I thing I am going to play with a little css and maybe make a few nice templates or get a few ideas about future web site layouts. What I dont get is what is wrong with tables? Like everyone says css is the way to go. But why is that? What exactly is the problem with nested tables? What is making everybody change to css?

[Stefan]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
What I dont get is what is wrong with tables?
What exactly is the problem with nested tables?


There is nothing wrong with tables. They are just perfect for their intended purpous, displaying tabular data.

The problems only really start when you use a table for something else then a real table.
HTML is a language where you "mark up" sections in a way that identifies what it is.
<hx> is a heading
<p> is a paragraph
<ul> is a list
etc

What is what might not make a difference on a modern Graphical browser, but thing can quickly get messy in text as well as non visual browsers if you start using the wrong tag for the job.
This is especially true for tables (even more so when nested), since how it will look in a graphical browser might make it very clear what section belongs to what part, but can make it compleatly unreadable/incoherent in eg a textbrowser.

Another thing that might be of importance to people, is that searchengines index webpages by using something that is very close to how the page looks in a textbrowser. Thus a properly constructed page with headings and proper alt-texts will make it easier to get an accurate registering and ultimately a higher ranking when people search for terms related to your site.


Like everyone says css is the way to go. But why is that? What is making everybody change to css?

The reason people began to abuse <table> for creating layout was that in the early days of HTML there was no alternatives. But clearly webdesigners want to make nice pages that attract visitors and thus CSS was designed to be able to fill in the gaps in regard to layout and formating.

When you compair a table based site vs a CSS based site there are a number of advantages of CSS that makes it very interesting, most notably

* Smaller (in kB) pages & Cleaner sourcecode
You can get rid of often very intricate table markup as well as get rid of pretty much all commenting by using intelligent choises of class & id names.

* Easier maintainablility
No need to update each page on a site manually since you can controll an entire site from a sinngle CSS file.
Eg changing a table border on 20 individial pages is much more difficoult then changing 1 value in your CSS file and have every single page on the site "automatically" updated.

* Accessibility & gracefull degradation
If you have properly used the Markup to write the page it will make sence even if all CSS is removed from it.
This is becuse CSS allows for the possibility to reposition & even show/hide things in a graphical browser as you please, while a table MUST have the content in a special order.
This is in it self the most important step towards accessibility, you basicly get it for free as long as you think about what you are doing as you code.