Prophecies and predictions

[smercer]

I was watching a documentary last night about the Prophecies and predictions that have been prophesised until 2012 and one of the prophecies from mother shipton has so far been true. This prophecy was written before 1561 and still tells many true events.

quote from website http://www.crystalinks.com/shipton.html

And now a word, in uncouth rhyme
Of what shall be in future time

Then upside down the world shall be
And gold found at the root of tree
All England's sons that plough the land
Shall oft be seen with Book in hand
The poor shall now great wisdom know
Great houses stand in farflung vale
All covered o'er with snow and hail

A carriage without horse will go
Disaster fill the world with woe.
In London, Primrose Hill shall be
In centre hold a Bishop's See

Around the world men's thoughts will fly
Quick as the twinkling of an eye.
And water shall great wonders do
How strange. And yet it shall come true.

Through towering hills proud men shall ride
No horse or ass move by his side.
Beneath the water, men shall walk
Shall ride, shall sleep, shall even talk.
And in the air men shall be seen
In white and black and even green

A great man then, shall come and go
For prophecy declares it so.

In water, iron, then shall float
As easy as a wooden boat
Gold shall be seen in stream and stone
In land that is yet unknown.

And England shall admit a Jew
You think this strange, but it is true
The Jew that once ws held in scorn
Shall of a Christian then be born.

A house of glass shall come to pass
In England. But Alas, alas
A war will follow with the work
Where dwells the Pagan and the Turk

These states will lock in fiercest strife
And seek to take each others life.
When North shall thus divide the south
And Eagle build in Lions mouth
Then tax and blood and cruel war
Shall come to every humble door.

Three times shall lovely sunny France
Be led to play a bloody dance
Before the people shall be free
Three tyrant rulers shall she see.

Three rulers in succession be
Each springs from different dynasty.
Then when the fiercest strife is done
England and France shall be as one.

The British olive shall next then twine
In marriage with a german vine.
Men walk beneath and over streams
Fulfilled shall be their wondrous dreams.

For in those wondrous far off days
The women shall adopt a craze
To dress like men, and trousers wear
And to cut off their locks of hair
They'll ride astride with brazen brow
As witches do on broomstick now.

And roaring monsters with man atop
Does seem to eat the verdant crop
And men shall fly as birds do now
And give away the horse and plough.

There'll be a sign for all to see
Be sure that it will certain be.
Then love shall die and marriage cease
And nations wane as babes decrease

And wives shall fondle cats and dogs
And men live much the same as hogs.

In nineteen hundred and twenty six
Build houses light of straw and sticks.
For then shall mighty wars be planned
And fire and sword shall sweep the land.

When pictures seem alive with movements free
When boats like fishes swim beneath the sea,
When men like birds shall scour the sky
Then half the world, deep drenched in blood shall die.

For those who live the century through
In fear and trembling this shall do.
Flee to the mountains and the dens
To bog and forest and wild fens.

For storms will rage and oceans roar
When Gabriel stands on sea and shore
And as he blows his wondrous horn
Old worlds die and new be born.

A fiery dragon will cross the sky
Six times before this earth shall die
Mankind will tremble and frightened be
for the sixth heralds in this prophecy.

For seven days and seven nights
Man will watch this awesome sight.
The tides will rise beyond their ken
To bite away the shores and then
The mountains will begin to roar
And earthquakes split the plain to shore.

And flooding waters, rushing in
Will flood the lands with such a din
That mankind cowers in muddy fen
And snarls about his fellow men.

He bares his teeth and fights and kills
And secrets food in secret hills
And ugly in his fear, he lies
To kill marauders, thieves and spies.

Man flees in terror from the floods
And kills, and rapes and lies in blood
And spilling blood by mankinds hands
Will stain and bitter many lands

And when the dragon's tail is gone,
Man forgets, and smiles, and carries on
To apply himself - too late, too late
For mankind has earned deserved fate.

His masked smile - his false grandeur,
Will serve the Gods their anger stir.
And they will send the Dragon back
To light the sky - his tail will crack
Upon the earth and rend the earth
And man shall flee, King, Lord, and serf.

But slowly they are routed out
To seek diminishing water spout
And men will die of thirst before
The oceans rise to mount the shore.

And lands will crack and rend anew
You think it strange. It will come true.

And in some far off distant land
Some men - oh such a tiny band
Will have to leave their solid mount
And span the earth, those few to count,
Who survives this (unreadable) and then
Begin the human race again.

But not on land already there
But on ocean beds, stark, dry and bare
Not every soul on Earth will die
As the Dragons tail goes sweeping by.

Not every land on earth will sink
But these will wallow in stench and stink
Of rotting bodies of beast and man
Of vegetation crisped on land.

But the land that rises from the sea
Will be dry and clean and soft and free
Of mankinds dirt and therefore be
The source of man's new dynasty.

And those that live will ever fear
The dragons tail for many year
But time erases memory
You think it strange. But it will be.

And before the race is built anew
A silver serpent comes to view
And spew out men of like unknown
To mingle with the earth now grown
Cold from its heat and these men can
Enlighten the minds of future man.

To intermingle and show them how
To live and love and thus endow
The children with the second sight.
A natural thing so that they might
Grow graceful, humble and when they do
The Golden Age will start anew.

The dragon's tail is but a sign
For mankind's fall and man's decline.
And before this prophecy is done
I shall be burned at the stake, at one
My body singed and my soul set free
You think I utter blasphemy
You're wrong. These things have come to me
This prophecy will come to be.


there is more in it, I think it may be too long to post here.

[philaweb]

For those with lots of spare time and nothing serious to do - here's more to feed your brain (http://slettes.dk/redirect_to/?url_name=http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/titan.htm).

[PeOfEo]

The book of revelation has so far been accurate, most noticeably with the reestablishment of israel, its present existance, and the wars it has been in.

[theuedimaster]

1000's and 1000's of years time.... there was always a chance it would happen..... the organized and powerful Jews always get what they set their minds too.... whether it be good or bad. Not being racist, but it is pretty true... people of jewish decent have had a different mindset when compared to people of European Decent, they have been more organized and focused. No coincedance I see, that they would want to go back to their so called "homeland", and weal and deal their way into it by playing the "superpowers".

[MstrBob]

ANOTHER political debate? Good God.

Meh, but I'm very skeptical of all the so called predictions. Word something ambiguously, wait several hundred years where anything can happen, insert believers trying desparately to make what was said true, bake for several years, Voila! Instant prophet!

[theuedimaster]

Exactly! Thats what I was trying to say!

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by theuedimaster
1000's and 1000's of years time.... there was always a chance it would happen..... the organized and powerful Jews always get what they set their minds too.... whether it be good or bad. Not being racist, but it is pretty true... people of jewish decent have had a different mindset when compared to people of European Decent, they have been more organized and focused. No coincedance I see, that they would want to go back to their so called "homeland", and weal and deal their way into it by playing the "superpowers". Uhhh, its not thousands and thousands of years of time, and I am not talking striclty about the reestablishment of israel, but also about other events that have happened since then.

PS: The idea to create a jewish state was a british idea that actually originated in 1917 by lord Balfour I believe.

[MstrBob]

Peo, lets stop this here? Why must we launch into another political debate? I think we all pretty much know that you two have differing political philosophies. I think we should realize that no matter how much you guys debate and argue, neither of you will change position. What's the point? Let's keep to the discussion at hand.

"Prophets" like Nostradamus and the like are bogus.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by MstrBob
Peo, lets stop this here? Why must we launch into another political debate? I think we all pretty much know that you two have differing political philosophies. I think we should realize that no matter how much you guys debate and argue, neither of you will change position. What's the point? Let's keep to the discussion at hand.

"Prophets" like Nostradamus and the like are bogus. I do agree that nostradmus is bogus. I am trying to keep this from being a debate. But we are talking about prophesy are we not? Also what does any of this have to do with politics?

Lets examine some of the things prophesized in revelation:
Israel was prophsized to be a burdonsome stone.
So far this has held true, as we all know nothing has been debated on more then the nation of israel by the un.

Israel will engulf her neighbors with a sword of fire
So far this has held true. So far there have been two major wars (6 days and yom kippor) in which the nations that surround issrael have invaded her. With a lot of us made equipment Israel managed to win easily both times, and both times Israel was greatly out numbered.

Israel being reestablished fulfills some prophesy just because if this haddent happened none of the other events could have occursed

Also the churches: If you go through revelation it talks about all of the church ages. You can go through history since the time revelation was written and check each of these off.

I am not going to tell you that this proves that there will be an anti-christ or a rapture, I am just trying to point out that so far the book of revelation has been accurate.

[MstrBob]

You know, everybody finds it real easy to go to these old predictions and say "Well, you see here. It said this, and it happened!" How about people start telling us about what's going to happen next? Take some of these ambiguously worded prophecies and tell me what's gonna happen, when, and where.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by MstrBob
You know, everybody finds it real easy to go to these old predictions and say "Well, you see here. It said this, and it happened!" How about people start telling us about what's going to happen next? Take some of these ambiguously worded prophecies and tell me what's gonna happen, when, and where. Well we started trying to do that in a revelation study I went to. We try to take the verses literally and added up a bunch of dates and came up with several time frames for when the battle of gog and magog could happen, also we came up with some possible time frames for the anti-christ's rise to power and the tribulation period and rapture. Now we are not going to claim these to be definate or mark these times on our calanders, but it was an interesting exercise.

[theuedimaster]

I mean seriously, some of these so called "prophesies" can be easily figured out. Now the Jewish people, for most of their history have been without a homeland. When they finally get one, they live peacefully in it for a while, erect holy shrines and structures, and then basically get pillaged and destroyed. The Jewish people then continue to roam the world and live in other countries. Now by looking at history, one can see that the Jewish people have always been at the top of the power chain wherever they arise (most of the time). Now, with all their holy relics and religous structures (that are very dear to them) this will one to come back and get them. With their tendency to have good and powerful positions where they arise, you could guess that one day they would use the power of other countries to take control of their so called "homeland". Now knowing that this is the middle east, and that all the surrounding people's have almost always been enemies of the jews, one can readily assume there will be some fight. And since the jews will certainly have the superior nations on their side, they will definetly bring "fire" and destruction upon the countires that attack them. How is this figured out now? Logic, not god-given prophesizing.

P.S. this was never a political debate. We are just talking about the validity of prophesies, and our reactions to some "prophesies" coming true.

[theuedimaster]

Originally posted by PeOfEo
Well we started trying to do that in a revelation study I went to. We try to take the verses literally and added up a bunch of dates and came up with several time frames for when the battle of gog and magog could happen, also we came up with some possible time frames for the anti-christ's rise to power and the tribulation period and rapture. Now we are not going to claim these to be definate or mark these times on our calanders, but it was an interesting exercise.

You don't mind posting some of the stuff you concluded on do you? It would be interesting to read.

[PeOfEo]

The idea of a Jewish state was a british idea originally and it was spawned out of the historic oppression of the jews. The jews did not weild their "mighty political hammer" and get it done. The Jews have stereotypically had a hold on the market (it was this that hitler used to motivate the german people to hate the jews), but in all reality they have always been hated. The catholic church in particular has always dumped on the jews (remember the crusades?). So the jews were never much of a political power house... they were simply good bankers.

[PeOfEo]

Originally posted by theuedimaster
You don't mind posting some of the stuff you concluded on do you? It would be interesting to read. Well we were basically adding up dates in the bible and the term generation came up a few times and we had a few different estimations for the period of the time of a generation according to the life span of people in todays world, those in the time of Jesus, and those in the time of abraham and I think there was one more. But we added up all the dates and we came up with different times for when the rapture will occur, which IIRC were 40 years from now, 60 years from now, and 150 years from now. We then thought about the start of the tribulation period and the anti-christ's rise to power and estimated that it would happen within 30 years of the rapture. This stuff is nothing to mark on the calander, but as I said, it was an interesting thing to study.

[theuedimaster]

Just a curious question PeofEo, who exactly is the anti-christ supposed to be? Is it a person,... or some sort of demon? Who really even mentions him, does Jesus mention it to his disciples or something? Or was it mentioned in the old testament?

[PeOfEo]

Well the anti-chirst is predicted to be of jewish and roman decent, so probably something like an italian jewish dude. He is obviously talked most about in the book of revelation (desecrating the temple, effectively being the ruler of the world, being very carismatic, so on and so fourth), But I believe there are some other prophesies relating to him in the rest of the new testament, as there are points about the rapture and the second coming that were made in other books within the new testament. The reason why you would not find this stuff in the old testament is because all of the prophecies in the old testament were fulfilled when Jesus was crucified and rose. So right now there are no prophecies left in the old testament waiting for fulfullment, but the book of revelation has prophesies that have been, some that are being, and many that are waiting to be fulfilled.

[theuedimaster]

But what I am trying to say is whether or not the word "anti-christ" was coined by Jesus Christ himself... or by the church. Anything in the new testament is about jesus right? So anything said in there would be something that jesus said or did. So did jesus claim that this man is the "anti-christ". Also, could you point out where in Revalations the anti-christ is discussed, I would like to look it up.

[PeOfEo]

Revelation 13 is the first chapter that comes to mind, that is where the mark of the beast is disgussed. But there are references to the anti-chirst throughout the middle of revelation.

Jesus did not coin the term anti-christ, or even rapture. The person and that event are in the bible yes, but the term is not. Those terms just exist because when you use them everyone knows what you are talking about, it beats trying to say "The day the wheat is separated from the tares" or one of the another analogies that Jesus used.

[wamboid]

Peo, have you read the "Left Behind" series of books about the rapture? They take an interpretation of the prophesies step by step. I think even non-believers could enjoy the books, taking them as SciFi/Mythology. There is some preaching in the books, but it can be skimmed through to get to the better plot lines.

[PeOfEo]

I have listened to some of the left behind books on tape in the car on a road trip. I disagree with their timeline in some places though. I think what I did not like was where they put the battle of Gog and Magog. I believe they put it in the great tribulation period (note* the great tribulation is not the same as the tribulation, the great tribulation refers to the last three years of tribulation) IIRC or something like that, I would have placed it just before tribulation. But other then some minor timeline disagreements I guess it is alright. Revelation is of course open to interpretation, we do not exactly have the same calendar as they did when the book was written, and we do not know which genoration he was referring to when he said genorations several times.

I would have to say, revelation and ezekiel have to be my two favorite books... they force me to really think about what it means when I read, and I can get really into them unlike some of the other books.

[wamboid]

I think I've seen things put in about every order possible by different "experts" at different times. I figure anyone who is studying this with belief in mind shouldn't really have to worry too much about the specific order. Anyway, you mentioned earlier that the antichrist would be of Jewish/Roman descent. Where does that come from. Not doubting you, just curious. I'm thinking the left behind books said something similiar, but not exactly, and I also wondered then where it came from.

My wife has a joking? theory about the antichrist. If he is around today, it is Arnold Swartzenalphabet. She laughs about that every time we see him on TV since he became gov of Cali.

[PeOfEo]

I like arnie :(

Well one main reason is satan counterfeits. His whole "anti-christ" is a counterfeit savior, he will be like an angel of light, very carismatic and all of that garbage. But I believe the reasoning behind hims being roman/jewish is just a way of mocking Jesus. There is a verse about it somewhere, I know I have seen it, I just do not remember where. But it is in revelation somewhere ;).

Well I mean we studied revelation and basically forged our own timeline and figured out when all of the other times people have ascended, like the old test saints, the rapture, the ppl rising at the end of the world to be judged, and all of that stuff and this was just how we layed out things and I think it is a good interpretation :P. I have a nice poster on my wall actually wih a very similar timeline that includes the ages of the church etc. The little graphic for satan on the poster is this little red dude with a cape and he is flying sorta like a super hero.

[wamboid]

I like Arnie too. I figure he's more likely to play the part in a movie than actually be the antichrist. Let me know if you spot that reference, I really have been looking for it for a long time.

The poster sounds similar to a wall border book I have, except mine is for the past rather than the future. It starts with Adam and goes to the flood, then follows Noah's sons and how the nations were formed. Updated pages every year show all the countries of today.

I like how your study gave only an approximate dateline. One thing commonly forgotten by people studying this is that if you think you have figured out the exact date and time, then you can be sure that is one exact date and time that is wrong. The only absolutely specific thing the Bible says about the time is that nobody can know when it is.

[PeOfEo]

Yeah, we were not trying to pin point it. This was just a fun exercise. All of this analizing also lead us all to have a better understanding of the events in revelation too. It was a good thing for our class to do.