Re-Designing a web-site... how much should I charge?

[MASTERofPUPPETS]

I know this forum gets a lot of these types of questions, so my apologies for the repetition...

I'm currently in the process of putting together a proposal to re-design a site, and need some suggestions/information from the pros/experts on this forum. This is my first gig, so I wanna make sure I do things right.


Ok, here it goes:

Site info
- Under 50 pages I believe
- Daily and weekly updated material
- Archived material
- Tables layout (no CSS at all)
- Not user-friendly (it uses frames; has poor color scheme, layout, font selection, etc.)
- Ads

My re-design ideas
- Valid XHTML + CSS
- Tableless layout
- Take out frames
- Add RSS feed(s)
- Add some scripting (JS, PHP, etc.) functionality

My questions

1). What’s the best way to approach such a proposal?

2). How should I charge… by hour/page/fixed price?

3). How much should I charge? A range would be sufficient.

4).
a) Best method of payment? By check?
b) When do I send the customer the code: before or after I get the money?

5).
a) Is a contract necessary? Are there any samples out on the web?
b) What type of info should I include in a contract?

6). If the site’s owner does not want to have his site re-designed for a price, should I offer to do it for free, just to have something to add for my portfolio?


Thanks for reading all this, and hopefully someone can help me out.

[andyshep]

thats a big site for a first project.

i would normally charge a price of about £100 for the first page and £25 for additional pages works out about £1300 for 50 pages then charge extra for additional functionallity such as RSS and PHP.the cost of that depends on how much scripting is involved.

the usual way to approach it is to do them some proposed layouts for them to see .get them to approve one. make any changes to the layout they require.( when i say layout i mean a artfile not html page)

dont do any coding until they are satisfied with the artfile.

payment usually 30% up front rest on completion( payment before upload ).
type of payment dosnt matter cos you dont upload till your paid.

you can search for web design services and look at their sites some include contracts on their site. will give you a few ideas.

ask yourself whats most important your portfolio or getting paid.
since its your first project reduce the price by 50%.

you may want to look at www.sitepoint.com will find some sample chapters for starting out.
andy

[MASTERofPUPPETS]

thats a big site for a first project.
well, i have done 3 other sites before... 1 for a non-profit org, a real estate site for my mom, and a personal site with my resume, school stuff, etc.

this would be my 1st paid project.



thanks for all the info, andyshep.

[Lee Rees]

I'd probably charge about £2500 but it really does depend on the amount of content being added to those 50 pages and what system you plan to implement to manage it.

When it comes to rates I think you should always charge a flat rate on design, you should only do a per hour charge on large scale data entry type tasks, such as loading products onto an e-commerce site etc.

I wouldn't do nothing for free unless its going to benefit you now or in the future, having a website in your portfolio could be seen as benefitial but you should push for something more, such as advertising space or maybe even a stake in the company. Is this a new venture and are you confident it will do well?, have you researched your customers industry, etc. etc.

If your customer gets big and your google adsense is on there, you could get a nice residual going on.

[buntine]

I will answer your quesions briefly using our companies methodologies.

1). What’s the best way to approach such a proposal?

This can be tricky at times. You need to make sure you are not wasting your time creating a proposal. If the proposal is accepted, begin by gathering as much specific details about the project as possible. This may require several interviews and/or email conversations. You need to get information about the goals of the Web Site and the targeted audience. Keep in mind that the Web Site may well be very outdated and the companies goals may have changed dramatically.

2). How should I charge… by hour/page/fixed price?

We always quote a fixed price based on the scope of the project. Charging by pages makes the client want to jam as much information into each page as possible, which results in a pretty ugly Web Site. Depending of the overall cost, we normally ask for about %25 upfront, which pays for our acceptance and preliminary data analysis.

3). How much should I charge? A range would be sufficient.

I could not give an accurate quote because of the lack of information. But, for someone in your position, I suggest between $1,500 and $2,000. Note, I am referring to Australian dollars. I am not sure what that would be in Canadian dollars. Considering you are proposing and not just accepting, you way want to charge a slightly less.

4).
a) Best method of payment? By check?
b) When do I send the customer the code: before or after I get the money?

We normaly ask for a check (or cash!). Always retain the final product until payment has been made in full. Definately demonstrate the final product to the client and ask for acceptance first, though. When the client accepts, send out the bill.

5).
a) Is a contract necessary? Are there any samples out on the web?
b) What type of info should I include in a contract?

Contracts can work for you and against you. If you see this as being a large and potentially important project for yourself, I would recommend you get some help in creating a contract. You will need to include things such as:
- Project scope (exactly what is involved)
- Terms and Conditions
- Copyright information and relevant laws
- Price

There is alot more that should be added. I could go on for pages! If you are really interested, get into a "small business" agency or something similar and you will be able to get free advice.

6). If the site’s owner does not want to have his site re-designed for a price, should I offer to do it for free, just to have something to add for my portfolio?

Building a portfolio is important, but do not go too far out of your way. Try negotiating with the client before doing it for free. You may even ask if he/she will agree to be a referance point for any future client/employees.

Hopefully this information will come in handy. I can elaborate on any point that I did not get across properly. Just ask.

Regards,
Andrew Buntine.

[Intensity]

We always quote a fixed price based on the scope of the project. Charging by pages makes the client want to jam as much information into each page as possible, which results in a pretty ugly Web Site. Depending of the overall cost, we normally ask for about %25 upfront, which pays for our acceptance and preliminary data analysis. I agree.. and customer wil attempt this. A good way to keep this under control is to have a clause in your contract stating that each page has a certain limit of words.. lets say 800.

I could not give an accurate quote because of the lack of information. But, for someone in your position, I suggest between $1,500 and $2,000. Actually it is good to provide a price range since no creative project has ever being completed exactly as planned. If you come in at the lower margin of your proposal than the customer will be happy. If the customer slaps in a bunch of changes and revisions than you have something to fall back on.

Best method of payment? By check? I also agree with check. if the client was to pay online via credit card, I advise that I would have to pass on the 3% processing fee on to the customer.

Is a contract necessary? Are there any samples out on the web? Getting the wrong kind of customer than makes life a living hell. They will trying to get everything out of you. Get one.

Remember throughout the entire process is to focus on the customers needs. Sometimes I found myself slipping by continously stating: Not in the Agreement. As long as the customer is not taking advantage of your courtesy, be a little lenient. Good customer service will sky rocket your referaral rates at zero costs.

[jmaresca2005]

buntine definetly knows what he is taking about.

[selbourne]

well a paypal payment would be a good idea....its fast and convenient

[scragar]

well a paypal payment would be a good idea....its fast and convenient
and only charges you 12.5%. yeah, real convinient.

1). What’s the best way to approach such a proposal?
gradualy, begin by bringing the iframes out and using include instead, then use a little javascript to help the user get around(never make a page javascript dependant).
2). How should I charge… by hour/page/fixed price?
I charge per hour, but for a first project you may want to decide on an all in sum.
3). How much should I charge? A range would be sufficient.
I'd charge around £20 per page(include external style sheets, root directory files and similar stuff).
4).
a) Best method of payment? By check?any, just avoid stuff that will charge you.
b) When do I send the customer the code: before or after I get the money?demand about 25% to begin, then about half way through the project when you check that this is what they want(customers are annoying for changing their minds at the last moment, so ask for confirmation repeatedly...) get another 25%. The last 50% gets done after you've uploaded it. If they refuse to pay then offer it as a gift to a rival company, that way you may only have recived 50% of the money, but you know the company won't plan on ripping you of again.
5).
a) Is a contract necessary? Are there any samples out on the web?
yes. I don't know.b) What type of info should I include in a contract? My standard contract is just that they agree to pay for services rendered in 4 or more installments upon completion of the work... All work is still copyrighted to myself... Withdrawl from the contract requires them to pay fees equal to that of all work suplied up untill that time, including all hosting an testing facilities.
6). If the site’s owner does not want to have his site re-designed for a price, should I offer to do it for free, just to have something to add for my portfolio?no, just reduce the price by about 1/3. If he still refuses then forget about it, (s)he just wants to waste your time.