The ultimate web development OS.

[webgovernor]

Well,

What do you think.

I'm stressed beyond belief right now, you see,
I have my Linux (mandrake 10.1) machine and my Windows (XP) machine...

I dunno what to pick!

I love the stability on Linux, it's a bazillion times more secure and stable,
but windows has Adobe Photoshop, Internet Explorer (testing only), and
jEdit.

But linux has bluefish... arg!

So, I know that this thread is almost worthless, and it may lead
to flame wars... but hey.

I'm just curious to see what all of you are using...

(I'm assuming Mr Herer is on SuSe, and DaveSW may be on linux too (the gimp thing,) and Ray326 is probably running some flavor of linux as well..)

But as for the rest of you, i dunno...

I'm not gonna go with mac, I need my non-proprietary hardware.
(It's included in the poll for variety)

So, pros /cons:

PROS:

Linux:
-Stable,
-Free,
-Secure,
-Bluefish,

Windows:
-Adobe PS
-IE
-Flash development.

CONS:

Linux:
-Buggy flash development (Alpha F4L)
-No photoshop (without CW's X-O Office).
-No IE (that I know of, I'm sure there's a clone engine)

M$
-Insecure, unstable, etc.
-Constant reboots,
-Poor networking (compared to linux),
-Expensive as hell (can be if I upgrade mobo with XP).


Oh, and I hate dual booting, I don't wanna switch from
one OS to another just for a couple of things...

Any input is much appreciated, and
I'll probably figure it out on my own, just curious.

[scragar]

it depends upon your situation, if you need both then choose whichever offers you most options in that circumastance.

[NogDog]

Sounds like it's time to set up a dual-boot machine with both Windows and Linux. :)

[Jupac]

Sounds like it's time to set up a dual-boot machine with both Windows and Linux. :)
Yup.. best way =)

[toicontien]

I have no major complaints against WinXP. I've got XP pro and honestly it's the first windows version I actually like. It takes a hell of a lot to get it to crash, usually a hardware failure of some sort. If you're worried about WinXP's security, there's a couple things you can do:

Keep up on OS patches
Install Zone Alarm
Install an anti-virus program
DON'T SURF FOR PORN
DON'T OPEN EMAILS FROM PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW

I have all the software I need on Windows. It's also handy to install multiple versions of IE-Win and Firefox and Opera on it so you can preview your pages in the most common browsers as you're developing and designing your site.

If you have no need for Photoshop or Flash, go with whatever the heck you want. My vote is for Windows.

[webgovernor]

You see, I was just curious if people found
that Linux or Windows has things like
ideal execution times, ideal software,
and easy integration with apache/php/mySql

My Linux Distro automatically came with mySql, PHP5, and Apache 2.
Although it's easy to set these up in windows as well.

I don't know, maybe I'll go with windows XP or 2000, and
wait untill a new, single window Gimp comes out, and
perhaps F4L gets a little more stable (I donated, hoping this will help things
along, once it's up, I'll have no excuse to use windows.)

Well, thanks a lot for the info,
I'll keep reading articles and checking for
any new info.

[AdamGundry]

I've been working almost entirely in Linux for about a year now, only booting into Windows for the odd app I need that doesn't run under Wine (http://www.winehq.com/). I've got Internet Explorer working (more or less) using Sidenet (http://sidenet.ddo.jp/winetips/config.html), and that's about the only program I can't use an alternative for. (I need it to test for IE bugs.)

Adam

[Jona]

If you’re looking into designing, I’m thinking that a Macintosh would be worth trying. Why? You’re always going to need to test your sites on a Mac anyway, so don’t buy a powerhouse, but perhaps try a Mac Mini and see if you like it. You may notice that a lot of the famous web designers out there use Macs. If you ask them why, they just say that it looks good and they like it. Windows is ugly, and if you’re constantly using an ugly OS, then your designs tend to be influenced in an ugly way. At least, that seems to be the case. Unfortunately, I haven’t had a chance to test all this out myself. In that regard, I would be safe and use Windows. That’s what I’m using now (until I decide to get a Mac), and things work fairly well, believe it or not.

I’d suggest running Windows and Linux on the same computer, and then keep a Mac available for testing as well. If you have all three, you can better decide what is best for you.

[ray326]

If you're serious about cross-platform PC stuff then dual boot a Win/Linux PC and share the keyboard/monitor/mouse/tablet with a Mac (non-iMac) through a kvm switch.

[PeOfEo]

M$
-Insecure, unstable, etc.
-Constant reboots,
-Poor networking (compared to linux),
-Expensive as hell (can be if I upgrade mobo with XP).

what are you talking about?
Windows can be just as secure as any unix or linux box running as a server
My server has great uptime, it only restarts when I update or install stuff on it
I do not have to worry about my network at all...
Windows can go cross mobo with only a tad bit work... windows is fairly plug and play happy
Plus why would you need to buy a new copy if you got a new mobo?


I myself dual boot windows and suse... my server is running w2k advanced server. I use mac viewer and a friends mac to preview stuff on macs.

[webgovernor]

Well, the motherboard, as I hear, is a main part of the windows
XP activation.

If I decide to change my motherboard, then I'll need to reactivate windows,
so I've read. This only occurs with XP, If I did choose a windows OS
(I settled with FC3) then I'd choose Windows 2000 (supposedly the most
secure and stable version.)...

Oh, and you're running Win2K advanced server, that's probably secure,
but it costs probably as much as, i dunno, a kidney transplant...

Windows can be just as secure as any unix or linux box running as a server
What are YOU talking about?

Sure, linux may be slightly more difficult to use, but its security options are far greater then
any M$ OS I've played with (I haven't had the opportunity to experiment with Win2K Server),
In linux, even the install allows you to set Shadow passwords, port options, etc...

And, my linux box will probably never reboot, ever.
However, If I install something that edits the registry in windows, I'll probably need
a reboot.

And the M$ networking is just, well, sufficient, but nothing more.

Oh, and I tested a POD against my old 486, once running Win NT and once running RH9,
the POD failed against RH, but NT crashed (I was using default values, didn't
change a thing.)

POD = Ping of Death, very old, and worthless security technique...

As far as web-design is concerned, I've decided on FC3, with Bluefish, Gimp, Apache 2,
PHP 5, mySQL, gFTP...

I was going to go with windows, but my FTP programs that I have for M$ are slightly
slower (Core FTP pro, xFTP), and I don't feel like paying for all the amazing tools
that come with Linux (I do some C/C++ in my spare time).

I do have a gaming machine, running XP, so I still run Windows, games, that's all it's
worth to me, games.

But, If I had a copy of Win2K server, I'm sure that I'd use it, I mean,
if it costs $238 - $3,460 (according to BizRate), then yes, If I paid
that freakin' much for an OS, then I'd deffinetly use it.

I'm sure Windows has its place, but I don't feel it suits my needs.
At least not as well as Linux does.

If you're serious about cross-platform PC stuff then dual boot a Win/Linux PC and share the keyboard/monitor/mouse/tablet with a Mac (non-iMac) through a kvm switch.

That's not such a bad idea, althoug I decided not to use windows, but I have
an older iBook (with Safari, IE6, and Galleon), would that work?

[ray326]

I have an older iBook (with Safari, IE6, and Galleon), would that work?
I don't know why not.

[Stephen Philbin]

I only tried out Linux because I was just curious about Apache. I figured that if I was going to be working on the web then I should at least try and have a go at learning to use a web server. I downloaded a copy of suse and chucked an extra HDD in my box and tried installing it. From all the people giving their misconceptions about linux I never even expected to be able to install Linux, let alone run it. Most people seemed to make it out to be something only evil crackers had the inclination to use and only those that could rewrite the dictionary in assembly in under 5 minutes had the ability to use.

Thankfully that could not have been further from the truth. The install was idiot-proof and the help documentation was great. After about 3 days I felt ok with Suse and after a few weeks was perfectly comfortable with it. I went back on windows once or twice in the first few months for photoshop, but I figured it wasn't worth it and just turned to the gimp instead. More recently I realised I hadn't even booted Windows in many months and figured I might as well just chuck it completely. Windows was sitting stagnant on an 80gig and I was running Suse on a 40, so I just moved Suse to the 80 and chucked the 40 in my PS2. Might as well get some use from it. I have a mate that still uses Windows and knows the basics of web design. He knows when IE is doing something it shouldn't, so I just ask him if my pages are ok in IE. I can also check it on the Folks PC if needed too.

Bluefish is ok, but there's plenty of room for improvement. Like it starting to chug a bit when you approach the 1000 lines of code mark. The syntax highlighting can also get rather confused sometimes too. Chuck some conditionals inside some html attributes and it soon starts incorrectly highlighting syntax (which as you might imagine, hinders more than it helps). It could also do with the parenthesis highlighting and closing that Kate offers too. Such a simple feature can help quickly put an end to those nasty nested control structure nightmares. I tried Amaya out as an alternative to bluefish, but that was just falling apart at the seams when I ran it.

As for flash, well I don't really care for it right now if I'm honest. I'd much rather spend my time focusing on proper web design and development. I'll arse about with the silly stuff once if got everything else nailed. Having said that though, I did notice there's a flash drawing thingy in open office with suse. I didn't really do anything with it other than draw a cuboid with the cuboid tool, but it's there if anyone wants it by the looks of it.

I'm very happy with my setup now. I have a nice and mellow OS that doesn't run away trying to do its own thing without telling you, and I feel much more in control of my machine. I have all the very latest versions of Apache 2, PHP 5, MySQL 4.1.XX and OpenSSL all running exactly as they should be on a home machine and I get to try out pretty much what I like, when I like.

There's no way I could ever go back to Windows now I don't think. I've got far to used to being able to just grab the source code of whatever application I like and then just configure and compile it into a customised application just for me. Trying to get applications for Windows that were full, free and trustworthy was probably my second most hated thing about using Windows. It took up way too much of my time was more often than not, a friutless endeavour.

To each their own I say. But my own is very much Linux now.

[CardboardHammer]

If you've got 2 machines, why pick? Just do on each what you feel it is better at.

[webgovernor]

Bluefish is ok, but there's plenty of room for improvement. Like it starting to chug a bit when you approach the 1000 lines of code mark. The syntax highlighting can also get rather confused sometimes too. Chuck some conditionals inside some html attributes and it soon starts incorrectly highlighting syntax (which as you might imagine, hinders more than it helps). It could also do with the parenthesis highlighting and closing that Kate offers too. Such a simple feature can help quickly put an end to those nasty nested control structure nightmares. I tried Amaya out as an alternative to bluefish, but that was just falling apart at the seams when I ran it.


I hear ya there, the default sytax highlighting sucks in bluefish (for PHP anyway)
that's my opinion, but I'm used to the "standard" highlighting.

The first time I changed it... well... it was a nightmare, I messed up everything.

When it comes to chugging, my WebDevCL programs has
a little over 1000 lines of code in the function/class file,
and I haven't noticed anything (P4 HTe 3.0Ghz, 1024MB Ram)...

But I've only been using bluefish for about a week...
(I was just using Quanta Editor minus wysiwyg).

As for Linux in general, I can't agree with you more, I've been using linux off and on, for about 2 years, started with RH 6.1...

About a week ago, I was starting to get really sick of the constant and tedious maintenance of Winblows, my only problem with linux was the lack of Adobe...

Now, after playing with the gimp 2.2 I realized that it's sooo much better (I think) I mean there are a lot more effects with the Gimp, the script fu is awesome!

So, winblows is gone, for good... I have my Apache 2, Php5 MySql4, BlueFish,
Gimp, and gFTP... I'm very happy.

As for rebooting, never, so far, my comps been running for a week straight with FC3, uninstalled/installed a lot of software, changed a crap-load of settings, etc..

No reboot, and it still runs very well!

Although, I did order some more ram, so I'll probably need to reboot... :)

Anyway, I've decided on linux, I feel like I have total control, and it just feels
so much more, i dunno, tight? Organized?

Thanks for your opinion, and Viva la Linux!

[webgovernor]

I have an older iBook (with Safari, IE6, and Galleon), would that work?

I don't know why not

Well, you said "non iMac" and I was just curious if an iBook had similarities with
an iMac that made it iMac-ish... understand?

Well, thanks.

[ray326]

Well the iMac has a built in monitor; I assume the iBook will drive an external monitor.

[webgovernor]

ohhhh...