I Hate Css!

[cusimar9]

Well, I suppose its the browser differences I hate :mad:

Every time I try and do ANYTHING firefox and IE end up being 4 pixels different either in width or height or something.

I've read various hacks for "if its IE 4 do this, IE5 do this, IE6 do this, in Europe do that but in the US do this blah blah" and its driving me mad

Is there a simple way to fix this?

Its always related to margins. My current gripe is IE decides it wants to draw my navigation menu 4 pixels wider than Firefox :(

[Sanim]

IE doesn't display web sites correctly. Most web sites are bound to have errors when viewed in it.

[cusimar9]

That doesn't help me when most people still use IE

I don't, but for instance my clients do

[Sanim]

Well, tell them to use Firefox or something! Heh. It's not my fault that Microsoft makes crappy software...

[cusimar9]

lol in an ideal world...

[Fang]

All browsers render differently, none are 100% W3C
What is the problem?

[cusimar9]

I've fixed it by cheating lol

The menu was drawing fine but there's some dynamic text in a table on another part of the page. When the text has a value in IE the navbar would draw an extra 4 pixels on the right for no apparent reason!

I've put the navbar inside a table and it works fine now. I'm trying to do things properly but I can't spend a whole day trying to fix a stupid little thing like this

[IncaWarrior]

basically make it work for Opera and firefox, then see what needs to be done for IE. just ignore all the IE versions before 6 since anyone that uses those is probably a loser and you don't want them visiting your site. One simple hack that I like is to add !important after thing for non-IE as that will override what ever else you assign eg:
margin-left:2px !important;
margin-left4px;
IE gets 4 px, everything else gets 2

[cusimar9]

Does that work for all versions of IE?

[Kor]

I Hate Css!

So do I hate my mother-in-low, but I confess I could not handle a lot of house things without her. This is it. Ca y est. :D

[IncaWarrior]

Yes it does, it's actually IE not recognizing that !important takes priority

[wamboid]

basically make it work for Opera and firefox, then see what needs to be done for IE. just ignore all the IE versions before 6 since anyone that uses those is probably a loser and you don't want them visiting your site. One simple hack that I like is to add !important after thing for non-IE as that will override what ever else you assign eg:
margin-left:2px !important;
margin-left4px;
IE gets 4 px, everything else gets 2
I'd love to ignore them, but then they would ignore me and I wouldn't make any money. I wouldn't have a problem with this if the people I owed money to would also ignore me.

[IncaWarrior]

Do you have statistics on your userbase that uses anything below IE 6? mostly it's very low.

[wamboid]

We are located in a small town with many old people who don't like change. Latest numbers are ie5 and earlier at 15% and ie6 at 81%. I haven't really noticed the rush to Firefox at all, in fact, practically the only hits are from my own browser!

[drhowarddrfine]

I find it interesting when a developer site I visit says their statistics show 50% FF hits. So developers use FF a lot. Hmm.

BTW, I'm in St. Charles.

[felgall]

My computer help site shows 78% IE6, under 2% IE5, 16% Firefox, about 2% Netscape (shalf 4 half 6+) , and 1.5% Opera.

[sparq]

just ignore all the IE versions before 6 since anyone that uses those is probably a loser and you don't want them visiting your site.

HAHAHAHAHA! Man, how funny would that be to do this in "the real world" ...

"Sorry Sir, you came to our fancy resteraunt in a beat up Ford Taurus; we refuse to service you on the same level as the gentlemen ahead of you who came in a Porsche 911"

:p

[toicontien]

All right. Nobody is solving this guy's problem. It doesn't matter in the real world who uses what browser. Quoth all users: "The browser I use is the right one!" Sparq, can you post a link to the page in question or post the HTML and CSS? I'm sure we could find a solution.

[amahmood]

From my point of view there is not anything wrong with IE. You may say that IE is ok but firefox has a problem or vise versa.
i have just posted a topic about text-align:center. It works ok in IE but has no effect in firefox.

Isn't it strange that people expect IE to be compatible with every thing else?

[BeachSide]

IE Does display things correctly...
So does FF and Opera and every other browser. They all display things according to what the programmers told it to display. They can only do what someone has told it to do. It cannot think on it's own and say well I don't feel like showing this div or that tablecell this way or that. I think it is funny how we hold IE to this high standard, maybe this is why they attempted to create their own standards... EGO! Fortunatly for us they claim that they will be more standards compliant with the release of IE 7. Unfortunatly for us IE 7 will not take hold for about another 2 years after it's release. :(

I personally do things the opposite of what I read that most do and I code for IE first then for everything else. Why? Because all the stats for all the site that I have made and can check the stats for say that approx. 90% to 98% of the visitors use IE. Those for me are real world statistics! That is my audience. That is who is paying my bills. Therefore I will code for them not the developers who say that IE sucks.

I do agree though that I am in favor of FF and that is my browser that I use 99% of the time... as a matter of fact unless it is absolutly necessary I will not use IE. For me there are only 2 sites that come to mind that require my use of IE and that is it, every other site can stick it in their ear.

[David Harrison]

IE Does display things correctly...
So does FF and Opera and every other browser. They all display things according to what the programmers told it to display. They can only do what someone has told it to do.I beg to differ (http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html). ;)

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

i have just posted a topic about text-align:center. It works ok in IE but has no effect in firefox.

you mean, in IE text-align aligns just about everything! In FF tho, it aligns only text, as its supposed to.

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

For me there are only 2 sites that come to mind that require my use of IE and that is it, every other site can stick it in their ear.

and those 2 would be?

[drhowarddrfine]

Beachside,

As IE becomes more and more compliant to the standards then you will have to play catch up learning the correct way to code. If you learn to code correctly, you won't have to rewrite for all the other browsers. You just rewrite for IEs errors. After all, IE is only five years behind everyone else.

[BeachSide]

David Harrison - This is how Microsoft programmed it. This is not a bug in IE. Therefore it works as it was intended to work. So falling back to what I said earlier there is nothing wrong with IE. There IS however something wrong according to the W3C recommended standards, which incidentally they (W3C) have even have done things incorrectly but we don't jump up and down and get all upset about it point finger and scream "YOU SUCK" It's funny the double standard we have isn't it?

LiLcRaZyFuZzY - QuickBooks and Bellsouth (for live customer support which I needed quite a bit awhile ago as I didn't want to wait all day on the phone for them)

drhowarddrfine - Who ever said I don't know how to correctly code? If you are referring to my site then yes that needs to be fixed as I made that over 1 year ago when I first learned CSS. My coding practices are just fine thank you very much. My goal is to have the web sites be as backward compatible and accessible as possible and display uniformly across as many browsers as I possibly can. I tend to reach that goal quite nicely and efficently.

"If you learn to code correctly, you won't have to rewrite for all the other browsers. You just rewrite for IEs errors."

Unfortunately you do have to code for different browsers. Look around and see how many times something works in Opera and not FF or FF and not Opera or Safari and not FF... I could go on and on. Yes I agree that most issues are IE related because their programmers did not follow the W3C recommended (key word there) standards.

I believe that this is one of the problems, that the standards are recommended. There is no structure to follow, no one requiring any company to follow any sort of standards. It is like a car. All auto manufactures must follow certain guidelines to meet the required standards such as certain colored tail lights rubber tires that must meet certain specs etc. Everything after those standards is fluff and uniqueness.

This is my opinion take it for what it is worth you don't even have to agree I simply ask that you keep an open mind...

IE is and was a pretty darn good piece of programming. Windows as well. Think about it, they told Bill Gates that NO ONE would want a personal computer in their home, that it would never be cost effective. Not only is there a personal computer in many many homes it has become a way of life. In only a few short years! Now everything revolves around personal computing. Everything from Desktops, laptops, servers, PDA's, Cellphones, Tablets, I could go on and on. Think about what it takes to make an OS and/or a browser, hell even Apple gave up and went to a *nix based OS because it is more cost effective they are even doing it with their processers now going to Intel.

Netscape couldn't keep up. They more or less dissolved. Were it not for a couple of people who wanted to improve upon things, grow and enrich the internet experience we would still be using IE without question! There would not be a FF to speak of there would not be any Mozilla. They were about to go under that is why they changed the name and marketing plan for FF.

Everyone stomps their feet and points at IE about a lot of things and how terrible it is. Think about this... were it not for IE would we be here on this forum talking about it? I don't know and neither do you unless you have the gift of the crystal ball to see what might have been.

IE cleared a path and pointed us in a direction. Now it is up to us as a community to do the best we can to harness the power of the internet and make it the best we can possibly make it. It is up to the browser creators like Mozilla and Opera to improve upon things. After all wasn't that the basis for the lawsuits against Microsoft? Where are all the companies that were crying now? They wanted free enterprise, and fair compitition. Well now they have it and only Mozilla IMO has stepped up to the plate. Some might try to include Opera but I can't include something that is being charged for. I know you can get the free version but who wants ads? Do you see ads on FF or IE?

Yes IE needs work. Yes IE is old. Yes MS is doing something about it. Should they have waited this long? I don't know. I am not a multibillionare CEO who makes those decisions. Do I like all this bulls**t regarding these browsers NOT IN THE LEAST. Would it be as much fun if it were easier... Not really. A greater part of what makes it fun is the challenge.

[David Harrison]

David Harrison - This is how Microsoft programmed it. This is not a bug in IE. Therefore it works as it was intended to work. So falling back to what I said earlier there is nothing wrong with IE. There IS however something wrong according to the W3C recommended standards, which incidentally they (W3C) have even have done things incorrectly but we don't jump up and down and get all upset about it point finger and scream "YOU SUCK" It's funny the double standard we have isn't it?Of course it's a bug, do you think that the IE programmers really sat down and decided that they'd shift over text in an element that's floated next to another one by 3px? That's the way it was programmed but it was programmed wrong, and there are a lot of bugs like this in IE, not just relating to CSS but also to security. THAT'S why we all point the finger and laugh in it's face.

IE is and was a pretty darn good piece of programming. Windows as well. Think about it, they told Bill Gates that NO ONE would want a personal computer in their homeDid they? I'll have to take your word for that then. I'll give it to you that IE is better than anything that I could make if I were to sit down and have a go, but that doesn't mean it's good, not by a long shot.

Think about what it takes to make an OS and/or a browser, hell even Apple gave up and went to a *nix based OS because it is more cost effective they are even doing it with their processers now going to Intel.Well since you mention *nix, there's one right there, a FREE (in most cases) OS and browser. How about that then?

Netscape couldn't keep up. They more or less dissolved. Were it not for a couple of people who wanted to improve upon things, grow and enrich the internet experience we would still be using IE without question! There would not be a FF to speak of there would not be any Mozilla. They were about to go under that is why they changed the name and marketing plan for FF.The reason that IE bested Netscape was because IE came with the OS and people are lazy, simple as. Netscape was the first to introduce LiveScript (later renamed as JavaScript). It was a great idea and part of the reason why IE had to play catch up.

Everyone stomps their feet and points at IE about a lot of things and how terrible it is. Think about this... were it not for IE would we be here on this forum talking about it?No, because it wouldn't exist.

IE cleared a path and pointed us in a direction.No it didn't.

[drhowarddrfine]

Sorry. Didn't mean to come across as saying you don't know how to code. I meant to say that, since IE doesn't do things right, you are forced to code incorrectly to make it work in IE, which makes it not work right everywhere else right off the bat AND it doesn't follow the standards.

Netscape couldn't keep up due to MS dirty tricks. They sued and won.

There must be standards somewhere to follow. IE claims they follow the standard but they don't. Or their browser does not work according to the standard even though they say it does, such as the box model.

The problem is you can't have a standard where everyone plays but MS. That is why IE is a bad browser. Not because it works with MS software or because non-tech people use it because it's installed on their computer and they don't know any better because they don't have to program for it. It's a bad browser because it doesn't work the way it's supposed to work. MS is part of the W3C committee and they still can't get it right.

It's almost like GM making the steering wheel on your car turn right when you turn it left. That's not the standard but just because they sell so many cars does that make it right?

[sparq]

All right. Nobody is solving this guy's problem. It doesn't matter in the real world who uses what browser. Quoth all users: "The browser I use is the right one!" Sparq, can you post a link to the page in question or post the HTML and CSS? I'm sure we could find a solution.
I didn't ask a question :confused:

[LiLcRaZyFuZzY]

ok, thats just weird! hehehe

[toicontien]

Every time I try and do ANYTHING firefox and IE end up being 4 pixels different either in width or height or something.

I've read various hacks for "if its IE 4 do this, IE5 do this, IE6 do this, in Europe do that but in the US do this blah blah" and its driving me mad

Is there a simple way to fix this?
:D Isn't this the question? Or were you just venting for the sake of sanity?

[sparq]

That is "cusimar9" not me... You told ME...

Sparq, can you post a link to the page in question or post the HTML and CSS? I'm sure we could find a solution.

Looks like someone lost THEIR sanity! :p

Be thankfull tomorrow is friday, my brain was fried two days ago, LOL!

[toicontien]

... and I'm retarded. I got nuthin'. So cusimar9, my previous post :p