Amateur Websites

[harrybapty]

Hi

I have developed a new website for helping amateur website developers like myself who are just starting to get into web developing. The site is a little simple at the moment but I am adding to it on an ongoing basis. Any comments welcome...

http://www.amateurwebsites.co.uk

[the tree]

Before trying to help others, learn for yourself.
This ought to get you started.
Why tables for layout is stupid (http://hotdesign.com/seybold)
The HTML validator (http://validator.w3.org)

[spufi]

You list Frontpage and Fusion, but don't list the best one in Dreamweaver.

"No longer do people need to learn complex html codes or scripting to create professional looking websites."

If HTML coding is complex, then these are the people who really should rethink the idea of making web pages. Out of all of the coding a person would do making a page, HTML is by far the easiest. And yes, a person making a site should at least know the basics and not let some overpriced tool do everything for them.

[harrybapty]

Thanks for the comments guys, some people do find html quite complex, especially when they are starting out and probably prefer a visual editor. Dreamweaver is listed first under webiste software. Is it necessary for a person to know the basics, after all it depends on their purpose. If they can make a perfectly good website without learning any coding, which suits their purpose, do they really need to learn html or any other language. After all, thousands do it every day. Why use a tractor when a spade will do?

[Mr J]

Is it necessary for a person to know the basics

It does when problems arise :D

[alco19357]

sure, it is necessary for people to know the basics, but tell me, DID YOU KNOW EVERYTHING WHEN STARTING OUT??? I dont think so. You learn it over time. And, thats where Frontpage comes handy. You can learn the HTML from the easy Frontpage tabs such as Normal mode, or HTML mode. It takes time and patience to learn a trade like this, and seeing what your making is better, atleast when your starting out!!!

[harrybapty]

all I was saying is that it's not necessary to learn any html or any other coding language for that matter, to make a website nowadays. Online website builders allow you to easily create a dynamic website within an hour which can include flash, forms, chat, database, e-commerce or any other element you care to mention. Some even allow you to post your own html or javascript. How would you create a website like that using code in under an hour using code. A lot of people just don't have the time to learn how to code a website and would rather use software or an online builder. Another advantage of online builders is that they allow you to change your website from anywhere instantly.

[the tree]

You can learn the HTML from the easy Frontpage tabs such as Normal mode, or HTML mode. It takes time and patience to learn a trade like this, and seeing what your making is better, atleast when your starting out!!!Hardly a good way to learn considering the crap that Frontpage tries to pass off as HTML.
all I was saying is that it's not necessary to learn any html or any other coding language for that matter, to make a website nowadays.Maybe not a webpage but what if they want a good quality, fast loading, accessable page?

[harrybapty]

So what you're saying is you can't have a good quality, fast loading accesible page using a visual editor or online webbuilder, Im sure a lot of people would disagree. Ive seen some pretty crap websites using raw html and seen some brilliant ones using dreamweaver or online builders. I guess it boils down to a matter of taste. But like it or not software and online builders are getting more sophisticated every day. How many people still used dos after windows came out. How many people use a starting handle to start their car, no they have electronic ignition. How many people cook their meals using a fire. Things move on, it doesn't matter how you achieve something as long as it suits your purpose. What Im saying is you don't need to learn any code to build a website full stop. If you want to use code go ahead you'll get a lot more flexibility but who is to say you have to. Surely it's a matter of choice for the individual, and if you can't be bothered or don't have the time or are just plain lazy does it really matter, what matters is website building is a hobby to a lot of people and if they don't want to learn html who am I to tell them to.

[dera]

why is the header of your page the backround at the top going on an angle?

[the tree]

So what you're saying is you can't have a good quality, fast loading accesible page using a visual editor or online webbuilder,Yes. Im sure a lot of people would disagree.Raise your hands if you dissagree with me.
Ive seen some pretty crap websites using raw html and seen some brilliant ones using dreamweaver or online builders.Woopdeedoo. Dreamweaver produces the closest thing to good HTML, and quite often produced valid HTML but most editors hardly ever do especially the ones you've listed.
I guess it boils down to a matter of taste.Hmm... accessability or exclusivity, no to hard is it?
But like it or not software and online builders are getting more sophisticated every day.No, they are becoming more elaborate, there is a fundamental difference.
How many people still used dos after windows came out. Thousands, Windows ran on DOS right up to win'95
How many people use a starting handle to start their car, no they have electronic ignition.Strawman. Ignitions are better than starting handles.
How many people cook their meals using a fire.Irrelavent, fires produce the same heat. WYSIWYGs don't produce the same code.
Things move on, it doesn't matter how you achieve something as long as it suits your purpose.The purpose of any website is centred around communication, an accessable website commicates with more people.

[KDLA]

Hi -
I looked at your site.

Not liking the left-hand navigation: the text is much too small, especially since you've chosen to use white text on a light background. It is very difficult to read. Either use larger fonts or a more legible font color to make this user-friendly.

You might want to check your site out using my browser/screen settings. There is an approx. 200px gap of white space between your navigation area and the content. Also, the content area lacks about 30px from aligning horizontally along the content area's top border.

Lastly, you might consider using a more professional look for your site's design. I noticed from the coding that it is based on a template. You need to expand it to reflect/highlight your services, rather than using the template as the stand-alone basis for your design. Then again, maybe you want that amateur look. ??? ;)

Good Luck -
KDLA

FYI - agreeing, as always, with the tree's argument.
* FrontPage = Evil
* An amateur has got to understand some coding to make his/her website cross-browser compliant. Dreamweaver and FrontPage don't help with that.

[harrybapty]

thanks for the feedback guys. Im afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree on most of the points. The mainstay of my argument is that we live in a world where people want things instantly. I agree, if you spend the time and have the aptitude to learn all the coding langauges and learn graphics packages and have a flair for design, then you'll produce an excellent website, eventually. But most people are not doing this for a job and want a website now, not six months to a year down the line. They maybe don't have the money to pay a professional to do it for them, that's why there's a market for website software and online builders. For the type of people who want to build a website in their few hours spare time over a couple of weeks. That's what I built this website for, to let people know that website building is no longer strictly the domain of the coders and is accessible to anyone, no matter what they're knowledge of technology.