rch10007
09-27-2005, 01:46 AM
Ok, so what do you do when you can't fire someone from the job and they won't cooperate with the rest of the team and show up late constantly?
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chong
09-29-2005, 01:47 AM
learn to work with him...
rch10007
09-29-2005, 01:53 AM
pure brilliance chong - go smoke another fatty and come back and give me more of your tremendous insight, lol!
buntine
09-29-2005, 06:10 AM
Mayby you can elaborate a bit. Why can you not fire this person or atleast report the individual to management?
Have you truly tried communicating the issue to the person. Normally, in my experience, if a group cannot communicate or otherwise get along, it is the fault of every member rather than just one. The problem is always due to poor communication.
Regards.
Have you truly tried communicating the issue to the person. Normally, in my experience, if a group cannot communicate or otherwise get along, it is the fault of every member rather than just one. The problem is always due to poor communication.
Regards.
JPnyc
09-29-2005, 11:15 AM
I'm trying to imagine why you can't just fire them. Relative of a boss? Of yours? Someone you owe a great deal of money to? Some other kind of debt? Because just based on what little info you've given, I would can them faster than dead tuna.
Compguy Pete
09-29-2005, 03:14 PM
If I remember correctly caning has worked for years as a successful way to get a point across.
on a more realistic note if talking with this person and other measures hasn't worked remove him from the imporant details they maybe working on and move them to the lesser busy work or another side project.
but we do need more information on why you cannot get this person to leave or what's causing their problem with the project.
on a more realistic note if talking with this person and other measures hasn't worked remove him from the imporant details they maybe working on and move them to the lesser busy work or another side project.
but we do need more information on why you cannot get this person to leave or what's causing their problem with the project.
JPnyc
09-29-2005, 03:24 PM
If I remember correctly caning has worked for years as a successful way to get a point across.
.
:D HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! GO PETE!
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:D HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! GO PETE!
rch10007
09-30-2005, 03:17 AM
Ok, let's just say that the person or persons cannot be fired becasue the are government employees. I can't say more than that but I think you can get the picture. Besides, if you can't fire the person - you can't fire them - does it matter why?
I was asking this question in the broad sense to see what sort of ways you deal with ineffective people who aren't scared of losing their employment nor their position for that matter. It is an interesting sort of situation and I was hoping to get some creative solutions of how to effectively deal with that type of individual. I like to think I know a lot of stuff but I don't know everything and it's great to gain insight into how others handle a given situation.
So, no canning (but the person can be written up to affect their promotion to the next level) and this person is in a supervisory position where their attitude directly affects others. And it's not that their attitude is terrible, it's just not productive and sometimes counter-productive with regards to morale.
Any ideas, suggestions, comments?
I was asking this question in the broad sense to see what sort of ways you deal with ineffective people who aren't scared of losing their employment nor their position for that matter. It is an interesting sort of situation and I was hoping to get some creative solutions of how to effectively deal with that type of individual. I like to think I know a lot of stuff but I don't know everything and it's great to gain insight into how others handle a given situation.
So, no canning (but the person can be written up to affect their promotion to the next level) and this person is in a supervisory position where their attitude directly affects others. And it's not that their attitude is terrible, it's just not productive and sometimes counter-productive with regards to morale.
Any ideas, suggestions, comments?
fortunate2001
10-03-2005, 04:08 PM
The highest motivators, the things that provide the highest worker satisfaction, are..... Interesting work, acknowledgement for the contribution, a sense of being part of a team, enough authority to do the work, etc. (Lowest on the motivator list: money).
So, creative ways to encourage and foster small successes is the key. Think on that, you;ll come up with a few ideas. It does work, really. Also, I find, especially with hardened "state worker" mentalities, that giving enough authority to do the work is usually quite rewarding.
Hope this helps.
So, creative ways to encourage and foster small successes is the key. Think on that, you;ll come up with a few ideas. It does work, really. Also, I find, especially with hardened "state worker" mentalities, that giving enough authority to do the work is usually quite rewarding.
Hope this helps.
JPnyc
10-03-2005, 04:53 PM
Ok then in that case I would try to subtlely be sure everyone knows the source of errors and that this person is incompetent or lazy or both. You can do this in a diffuse enough way to avoid it looking like a personal agenda of yours, if you're careful.
Snitchcat
10-03-2005, 10:00 PM
Ok then in that case I would try to subtlely be sure everyone knows the source of errors and that this person is incompetent or lazy or both. You can do this in a diffuse enough way to avoid it looking like a personal agenda of yours, if you're careful.
Unfortunately, to me, this sounds like company politics and not the best lot of politics either. While this person is probably lazy and incompetent, IMO, politics isn't the answer.
Can you go to this person's line manager, instead? Is that possible? Is it because they can't lose their job that they're this way? If so, I'd suggest removing that person from the team or transferred elsewhere (if either option can be done -- sometimes, you can't do anything about their presence). If you can't do anything about their presence, give them the mundane tasks; critical tasks reserve for those who are capable and willing to do them.
You might also try to get through to them regarding promotion prospects, i.e., they don't have any if they don't pick up the slack. But if you've already tried this with negative results, then this person probably has no interest in the project.
OTOH, I do agree with Fortunate2001 -- people like to feel they belong, they like to feel they're contributing and being acknowledged. Perhaps rewarding this person for something they've done right, competently, etc., is the way to motivate them?
IMO, punishing for something done wrong or not at all has a negative affect (though, some need this). Perhaps it's better to get this person's attention and try the quiet version of 'get this done, now, or else!' Some people respond better to pleasant tones than strident, angry ones.
But, if the nice version doesn't work and the nasty version is also ineffective, there really isn't much you can do about this co-worker.
One last thing: can you find out what motivates them? If so, it may provide you with some ideas or leverage. And if you think you know, confirm you're correct, before assuming so -- I've found that sometimes what I thought I knew about a person's motivation turned out to be very wrong.
Then again, if you already know and nothing positive has come of it...then you just have to learn to work with them or around them. (This is not a flippant comment and certainly not an obscure one; this is a must if you have no other option.)
Good luck with this situation.
Unfortunately, to me, this sounds like company politics and not the best lot of politics either. While this person is probably lazy and incompetent, IMO, politics isn't the answer.
Can you go to this person's line manager, instead? Is that possible? Is it because they can't lose their job that they're this way? If so, I'd suggest removing that person from the team or transferred elsewhere (if either option can be done -- sometimes, you can't do anything about their presence). If you can't do anything about their presence, give them the mundane tasks; critical tasks reserve for those who are capable and willing to do them.
You might also try to get through to them regarding promotion prospects, i.e., they don't have any if they don't pick up the slack. But if you've already tried this with negative results, then this person probably has no interest in the project.
OTOH, I do agree with Fortunate2001 -- people like to feel they belong, they like to feel they're contributing and being acknowledged. Perhaps rewarding this person for something they've done right, competently, etc., is the way to motivate them?
IMO, punishing for something done wrong or not at all has a negative affect (though, some need this). Perhaps it's better to get this person's attention and try the quiet version of 'get this done, now, or else!' Some people respond better to pleasant tones than strident, angry ones.
But, if the nice version doesn't work and the nasty version is also ineffective, there really isn't much you can do about this co-worker.
One last thing: can you find out what motivates them? If so, it may provide you with some ideas or leverage. And if you think you know, confirm you're correct, before assuming so -- I've found that sometimes what I thought I knew about a person's motivation turned out to be very wrong.
Then again, if you already know and nothing positive has come of it...then you just have to learn to work with them or around them. (This is not a flippant comment and certainly not an obscure one; this is a must if you have no other option.)
Good luck with this situation.
rch10007
10-03-2005, 10:38 PM
I thank you for your comments thusfar. They are insightful.
The problem with the whole situation is maybe me!!! I am starting to believe that I ask to much from people. Things like, showing up to work on time, take inititive in your tasks, look for answers before asking me to find them for you - I have my own duties to work out, and responsibility for completing your task on time and if you can't, don't wait until it's due to let someone know it's not finished.
Is this asking too much? :confused:
I am somewhat of a work-a-holic and I expect people that have a job to perform their best in fulfilling their objectives. I understand that we all have bad days and I am apathetic the need for slack time, but not every day.
I am just frusterated! :(
I hate to work around people who don't really want to be here and are only here for the paycheck and not their contribution - I guess I should get used to that. Do you feel the same way?
The problem with the whole situation is maybe me!!! I am starting to believe that I ask to much from people. Things like, showing up to work on time, take inititive in your tasks, look for answers before asking me to find them for you - I have my own duties to work out, and responsibility for completing your task on time and if you can't, don't wait until it's due to let someone know it's not finished.
Is this asking too much? :confused:
I am somewhat of a work-a-holic and I expect people that have a job to perform their best in fulfilling their objectives. I understand that we all have bad days and I am apathetic the need for slack time, but not every day.
I am just frusterated! :(
I hate to work around people who don't really want to be here and are only here for the paycheck and not their contribution - I guess I should get used to that. Do you feel the same way?
Snitchcat
10-04-2005, 12:31 AM
The problem with the whole situation is maybe me!!! I am starting to believe that I ask to much from people. Things like, showing up to work on time, take inititive in your tasks, look for answers before asking me to find them for you - I have my own duties to work out, and responsibility for completing your task on time and if you can't, don't wait until it's due to let someone know it's not finished.
Is this asking too much? :confused:
No, that is not asking too much. I ask and expect the same thing. If I don't get it, I want to know why -- is it because my team hasn't before been given such authority or expectation? Is it because they don't know where to start? If it is either of these, then it's my responsibility (if I'm team leader) to show them where to start, etc.
But I don't worry about my team getting to work on time. They'll get there when they do; I just expect them to know their responsibilities and take them seriously.
I also don't ask why they're late. Consistently or otherwise. It doesn't matter to me -- outside of work, they have their lives, I have mine. If their private life doesn't affect their performance, it's none of my business. No one likes a cage. So, in a way, you've shown respect and understanding, and you've certainly shown you aren't their keeper (hence, no cage). And while your team mayn't say so, they do appreciate this and it will show in their actions.
Granted this approach mayn't always be appropriate, but it does make for a more relaxed, friendlier atmosphere.
The other method that works for me is setting the deadlines, outlining what needs to be done by when, and the consequences of not doing those tasks.
Maybe you could try printing a schedule and tacking it up in a prominent place for your team. Cross off the tasks as they are completed and note which ones were done before or by the deadline; anything finished after the deadline is very noticeable then. Who wants to be last? Certainly not me or anyone conscientious about their work... It may be something you could try. A little friendly competition. And add in some sort of reward / prize -- it could be something silly or fun, or serious. (I've also found people 'rebel' when bored or don't feel challenged enough.)
I am somewhat of a work-a-holic and I expect people that have a job to perform their best in fulfilling their objectives. I understand that we all have bad days and I am apathetic the need for slack time, but not every day.
I am just frusterated! :(
Lol, workaholic?? Yes, I know that one, and I understand the frustration. Yes, we all expect people to perform, to do their best. But the fact is, people don't always live up to expectations. (^_^)
I hate to work around people who don't really want to be here and are only here for the paycheck and not their contribution - I guess I should get used to that. Do you feel the same way?
If someone is there just for the paycheck, I have an easier time of it because they will automatically get themselves ousted -- there's no room for slackers in the company I work for. But, yes, I feel the same way -- if someone's there for the paycheck, they can jolly well pay their colleagues!
In all the time I've worked in this city, I've found the best way for a smooth project is a combination of the following:
Change what you can.
Go around what you can't change.
Be pleasant.
Be professional.
Set high standards for yourself.
Expect people to set high standards for themselves. (If they don't make it, their personal disappointment is more motivating than yours.)
And if it's really getting to you, vent (usually a journal, or with a friend who's not in your situation are good outlets).
Anything else and it really puts your reputation on the line as well as your performance. (Of course, there are situations where you need to show anger, but those have to be picked carefully.)
Personally, I don't do any of these things perfectly; I don't always succeed either. But, I've found just by sticking to these simple guidelines, life is better and contains less stress. I also don't get so frustrated. And a bonus: sometimes, I find ingenuous solutions that work whenever I step back from the situation and force myself to relax. (^_^)
Is this asking too much? :confused:
No, that is not asking too much. I ask and expect the same thing. If I don't get it, I want to know why -- is it because my team hasn't before been given such authority or expectation? Is it because they don't know where to start? If it is either of these, then it's my responsibility (if I'm team leader) to show them where to start, etc.
But I don't worry about my team getting to work on time. They'll get there when they do; I just expect them to know their responsibilities and take them seriously.
I also don't ask why they're late. Consistently or otherwise. It doesn't matter to me -- outside of work, they have their lives, I have mine. If their private life doesn't affect their performance, it's none of my business. No one likes a cage. So, in a way, you've shown respect and understanding, and you've certainly shown you aren't their keeper (hence, no cage). And while your team mayn't say so, they do appreciate this and it will show in their actions.
Granted this approach mayn't always be appropriate, but it does make for a more relaxed, friendlier atmosphere.
The other method that works for me is setting the deadlines, outlining what needs to be done by when, and the consequences of not doing those tasks.
Maybe you could try printing a schedule and tacking it up in a prominent place for your team. Cross off the tasks as they are completed and note which ones were done before or by the deadline; anything finished after the deadline is very noticeable then. Who wants to be last? Certainly not me or anyone conscientious about their work... It may be something you could try. A little friendly competition. And add in some sort of reward / prize -- it could be something silly or fun, or serious. (I've also found people 'rebel' when bored or don't feel challenged enough.)
I am somewhat of a work-a-holic and I expect people that have a job to perform their best in fulfilling their objectives. I understand that we all have bad days and I am apathetic the need for slack time, but not every day.
I am just frusterated! :(
Lol, workaholic?? Yes, I know that one, and I understand the frustration. Yes, we all expect people to perform, to do their best. But the fact is, people don't always live up to expectations. (^_^)
I hate to work around people who don't really want to be here and are only here for the paycheck and not their contribution - I guess I should get used to that. Do you feel the same way?
If someone is there just for the paycheck, I have an easier time of it because they will automatically get themselves ousted -- there's no room for slackers in the company I work for. But, yes, I feel the same way -- if someone's there for the paycheck, they can jolly well pay their colleagues!
In all the time I've worked in this city, I've found the best way for a smooth project is a combination of the following:
Change what you can.
Go around what you can't change.
Be pleasant.
Be professional.
Set high standards for yourself.
Expect people to set high standards for themselves. (If they don't make it, their personal disappointment is more motivating than yours.)
And if it's really getting to you, vent (usually a journal, or with a friend who's not in your situation are good outlets).
Anything else and it really puts your reputation on the line as well as your performance. (Of course, there are situations where you need to show anger, but those have to be picked carefully.)
Personally, I don't do any of these things perfectly; I don't always succeed either. But, I've found just by sticking to these simple guidelines, life is better and contains less stress. I also don't get so frustrated. And a bonus: sometimes, I find ingenuous solutions that work whenever I step back from the situation and force myself to relax. (^_^)
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