AOL and pop ups

[mstover]

AOL (as well as Earthlink & others) has created a pop up blocker which effectively ruins many of my sites. Is there a way to have a javascript pop up without the browser recognizing it as one? (And I don't mean target_blank - that's great for some things, but doesn't work for others).

Thanks!

[DrDaMour]

what are you doing that it's ruining?

[Vladdy]

Do not use popups, whatever you use them for can be done without them: http://forums.webdeveloper.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6810&highlight=Unobnoxious+popups

[Nevermore]

Popups are recommended by the W3C as a primary way of delivering slightly relevant information, but that might not be of interest to the blind etc, as they will not pop up on speaking browsers, and can be closed.

[Vladdy]

Originally posted by cijori
Popups are recommended by the W3C as a primary way of delivering slightly relevant information...
Do you have a link to the page that contains this recommendation??? Strict HTML does not support popup concept...

[Charles]

The solution is to implement your pop ups in such a way that page works just as well with or without them supported. id est:

<a href="http://www.w3.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href, 'child', 'height=400,width=300'); return false">W3C</a>

[Nevermore]

Vladdy - it's somewhere in the accessibility guidelines I think. It is a low-priority one though.

B.T.W. Charles is back!!!!!! :) :) :)

[Vladdy]

My point is that it's easier to "pop up" relevant (or irrelevant) information WITHOUT opening a new window

[Charles]

You are thinking about Guideline 6.3 (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-scripts) And you have that backwards:[E]nsure that links that trigger scripts work when scripts are turned off or not supported (e.g., do not use "javascript:" as the link target).

[Nevermore]

How do you know so much about the accessibility guidelines? I try to make my pages accessible, but it would have taken me hours to find out something like that! Do you have any tips on how to make pages accessible?

[Charles]

The trick is get over the emotional hurdle of thinking that making an accessible site is somehow something special, or something that's worth the extra work. Really, it's a great deal less work.
http://www.w3.org/WAI/References/QuickTips/:
Images & animations: Use the alt attribute to describe the function of each visual.
Image maps. Use the client-side map and text for hotspots.
Multimedia. Provide captioning and transcripts of audio, and descriptions of video.
Hypertext links. Use text that makes sense when read out of context. For example, avoid "click here."
Page organization. Use headings, lists, and consistent structure. Use CSS for layout and style where possible.
Graphs & charts. Summarize or use the longdesc attribute.
Scripts, applets, & plug-ins. Provide alternative content in case active features are inaccessible or unsupported.
Frames. Use the noframes element and meaningful titles.
Tables. Make line-by-line reading sensible. Summarize.
Check your work. Validate. Use tools, checklist, and guidelines at http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG
The tricky one is "Page organization". You'll have to change the way you think about a web page and some people find that painful and difficult. You'll need to think about the meaning of each element on your page and ignore the way it looks at first. All of the headings need to be marked up as headings, paragraphs as paragraphs and lists as lists. And no cheating like using BLOCKQUOTE just because you want some indentation or by using TABLE simply for layout. Someone should be able to understand your page by simply reading the mark-up. Once that is done you can then add the visual stuff using CSS.

By all means spend a lot of time at the Web Accessibility Initiative site (http://www.w3.org/WAI/), but mostly approach the whole thing with an open mind.

[Nevermore]

Thankyou. I already do all of that except for the multimedia point, which I will now try to do.

[Charles]

Following your link I notice that you do, indeed. And I salute you.

[mstover]

As I have mentioned in a previous thread (which seems to have died):

There are three simple pages: index, order form, thank you page. Right now, the index page has an "order" button which redirects the user to a thank you page which at the same time "pops up" the order form. So when they print & close the form, the thank you page is already showing. What I'd like is for them to be able to go to the order form - print the form - and have the thank you page come up after they print. Does that make more sense? (I was trying to be brief.)

[Charles]

So you've got a comercial site that is completely inaccessible to the one in ten users that do not use JavaScript (http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2002/November/javas.php) and to the un-numbered users that block pop-ups. And because some of those users are people who cannot use JavaScript because of their disabilities you may be violating the law. In the US that law would be Title III of the American's With Disabilities Act. (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/pubs/ada.txt)

Your solution is to submit the form to a server side script that returns the thank you page.

[DrDaMour]

oooooooooooooh, call the coppers on him.

[mstover]

"You've got a comercial site that is completely inaccessible" - no need to be rude. I know it's not the best solution - that's why I'm asking.

[Charles]

Originally posted by mstover
I know it's not the best solution - that's why I'm asking. Then start with a site that works on all browsers and then add the JavaScript bells and whistles. And see http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/.