[B]the new big thing?[/B]

[Zacku]

Hi
i happened to come across a website : www.homepage.d4a.com, which i feel has the potential to be a big player in the Internet.

I think this site is gonna be useful to us becoz it saves time by lettin us easily click on the links rather writing those addresses into the address bars !!
They have more than 600,000 users as of now and hence i do believe we are seeing the rise of another Great !
Im waiting to recieve your comments on my opinion,
Zac :D

[TheGodfather]

Hey, thats a good site there, but i dont think its gonna be as good as Google !

[David Harrison]

You're telling me that you have over 600,000 users for what appears to be a single page with just a handful of links on it, are you kidding?

On top of that you're hosting on freewebs, I doubt that you'd have the bandwidth to handle that many users. 600,000 page downloads comes to just over 90GB by the way.

You should definately check out that site in a real browser some time, it looks terrible, and a look at the source code explains why, seems as though you made the page in Microsoft Word.

All you've got is a smattering of links, most of which will be useless to individuals, therefore it's like a very generic, hit and miss bookmarks list.

It's got an OK design though, although as previously mentioned, it only works in IE, but not decent browsers.

[Zacku]

Well.............alrite...........i admit................!
This site is mine and it has NO users at all !!
All this site has recieved is 423 hits !
I dont have the money for a host - so its a free host !
I dont have the money for a domain name - so its a URL redirection !
I dont have amount of visitors I have - so I stuck up with a 6-digit no. !

All i wanted to create was a site with a difference - Im just 16 yrs old so im not a gr8t
programmer so all i cud create was a site with a proper design (I hope atleast my design looks good) - and I think my idea of a site that serves solely as a Home Page wasnt bad. This site loads each time u open a web-browser ( so it helps a person not to type in those addresses, but instead just click on the links to the most frequently visited sites !
But i guess im no good at it now,
Anyway i thank u all !

[Kevey]

Slow down bro...this site is all about getting punched in the face by your peers. I think you should keep your post bumped and ask questions on how you can improve your design. There is alot of expertise here that can lead you in the right direction and help you make a really cool site. Don't get down cuz people are whacking you...that's kind of what has to happen to get things rolling. I got whacked a bunch of times!

So...what's your main goal for the page? Lots of visitors, or your own personal use? This will give us all a starting point to go from. I am glad to hear you are into programming at 16...very cool.

[David Harrison]

So why not simply say all that in the first place?

Some advice, quit using M$ Office to make pages with, Office is a desktop publishing suite, not a web publishing suite.

There are lots of other programs out there that make creating web-sites easier, though I would stay away from WYSIWYG (what-you-see-is-what-you-get) programs, like Frontpage Express and Dreamweaver (although apparently the code view in DW is quite good).

Personally all I use is notepad, but others prefer editors with more features, such as syntax highlighting and tabs. There have been many threads on the forums about which is the best editor to use.

You have some good design skills, so keep at it. If you learn to hand code your sites you can get them to be cross-browser aswell.

[Zacku]

thanks to both Kevey and David for your advices and encouragements!
I think i shud learn from my mistakes,
but the problem is even when i introduced my site, i was blamed for using a free web-host, and im not economically sound enough to take a risk,
I know a bit of HTML and lil bit of JavaScript and i am confident that i can hand-code my site, but i thought creating a website in Office would be a lot easier, Can u plzz tell me if there is any advantage in programming by ourselves to using Office?

[David Harrison]

There's a huge advantage to hand-coding it. Office will only produce code that works in IE and WYSIWYG editors concentrate only on the visual side of it and the semantics of the page are left behind, making it harder for non-graphical browsers to access the site.

When you hand code a site, it's easy to test in a variety of browsers throughout the build process maximising the amount of users that can access the site. Also, WYSIWYG editors add lots of unneccesary bloat to a page, sometimes randomly including JavaScript that isn't needed, or an excess of elements on a page where none are needed. A human mind is capable of realising when code is neccessary and when it isn't, machines simply can't do that yet.

At the present time machines only do what they're told to do, they can't work things out for themselves and make a judgement call. When it comes to turning a design into a web-page, there are so many variables involved that it's simply not possible to program them all in, so if you use a program to create a site then you're going to end up with unoptimised code, which will affect search engine rankings and site accessibility to users with non-graphical browsers (such as audio browsers and braille displays).

The best way to go is to learn HTML and CSS yourself, it won't take long to learn it, it will take some time to get used to using them and to work out all of the CSS quirks that IE possesses, but after that it just get's easier. After a few months it'll be like second nature.

There's no problem with using a free host, especially if you've just started, everyone uses free hosts when they start out. But when you announce something as the next big thing, and it's on freewebs ... well, something doesn't click.

I would hold off on using JavaScript for now until you learn how JavaScript affects the accessibility of a page. JavaScript should only be used to augment a page, and the page should still be useable when JavaScript is disabled or not supported. Remember, it's not just blind users that don't have JavaScript enabled, some users choose to disable it, and search engines are just like blind users.

Two last pieces of advice, the first is don't use tables for page layout, use a CSS based layout. Second is to buy a book to get you a good base to build from, I'd recommend Elizabeth Castro's HTML for the World Wide Web 5th Edition with XHTML and CSS. I've got it and it's very good.

[Zacku]

so does making use of Microsoft Frontpage have any advantage disadvantages??

[David Harrison]

Microsoft Frontpage is a WYSIWYG editor, except it's the worst one available.

[Zacku]

so can u plzz name some very good WYSIWYG??

[ray326]

Probably the best of the WYSIWYG editors is Dreamweaver.


I moved this thread here since it's off topic in Reviews and although it started as a bit of spammage I think the poster's gotten the message and is now simply looking for assistance. == Ray

[pcthug]

so does making use of Microsoft Frontpage have any advantage disadvantages??
Its interface is much the same to all other M$ apps, like word, so it will be simple to learn and use.

As said it is also one of the worst WYSIWYG webpage editors out there, though it is atleast better then Word.

It is also much easier to design in as you get automatic results, drag and drop and absolutly no coding is necesary, although....

*
M$ frontpage creates very dirty code, which can only properly be seen in IE, which excludes all the real browsers: Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc. from seeing your page as you intended.

If there is a problem in your code or on your page you will not have any ideas on how to fix it, as you will not know how to read your html to find the problem.

*
My advice, you should just go out and learn HTML. It is not overally hard, and wont even take that long. Start by checking out W3 Schools HTML tutorial (http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_intro.asp), and continue on from there.

Dont forget the web is packed with HTML tuorials and help, and if youy cant find your answer there, just ask in the HTML forum

[Zacku]

My advice, you should just go out and learn HTML. It is not overally hard, and wont even take that long.
Thanks for the advice,
But i know most of the basics in HTML, I was interested in using Office becoz it wud make my work a lot easier !, I wouldnt naturally have to spend all my time and effort on something im not sure whether it will turn out to be successful

[pcthug]

well there are alot of other programs which share the ease of a wysiwyg editor like Frontpage, and that dont produce such bad results, here 3 to name a few:

Dreamweaver (http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/?promoid=BINR), the king of wysiwyg editors, although only 30 day trial
NVU (http://nvu.com) This one is yours to keep, and is'nt that bad.
Golive (http://www.adobe.com/products/golive/main.html) Another wysiwyg editor, and this one is from the owners of Dreamweaver, but it too is only a Tryout.

All of these produce much cleaner and valid code, and boast many more options and useful things in which FrontP. dosent

[ray326]

Eschew the WYSIWYG but still get lots of editing and site management help. The price is right, too.

http://htmlkit.com

[welsh]

when you are coding make sure that the website works in most browsers (ie, firefox, etc.) because right now it looks extremely messed up in firefox.

[Zacku]

Ya, i noticed that my site wasnt loading properly on a FireFox browser and maybe many others, Do u think it is becoause i use WYSIWYG editors that i am experiencing this problem, is there an solution to this other than hand-coding in HTML??

[TheGodfather]

I am not using FireFox so i didnt find anything wrong with your website, but you've got to make it more popular and since the purpose of your site is to act as a Home Page, then for that u shud make sure that the site loads instantly.
Anyway my best wishes to u,( gud thing u admitted the truth)

[Zacku]

thank u godfather,
I dont know wat to du in order to load my site faster- shud i go for a better host,
or is there any advantage when it comes to loading a site if we hand-code?
any ideas are welcome!


(i would like to thank all the guys, for the interest they have shown in me to help me!!)

[xtecltd]

i think your best bet is to save a few pennys and buy a domain name then start looking for a host
iv seen a few free host that are very good but your best of buying a cheap 1 to start with
and i use NVU to edit my site , yes the code is abit messy but i dont care as long as all the pages load fine that good for me

[welsh]

hey, its the fact that u use M$ word to code your page because it codes it for IE specifically. maybe a better host would be good. also adding some custmization would be good.

[ray326]

Do u think it is becoause i use WYSIWYG editors that i am experiencing this problemYes, that and your current lack of knowledge. Experienced developers can use a WYSIWYG editor to generate raw material then use what they can and discard the rest or they know how to make the editor deliver higher quality code because they know what higher quality code is. If you look at Zeldman's sites or read one of the how-to books below you'll find out WHY building a more correct page also builds a faster loading page.

[MstrBob]

Whoah, at first I thought it was merely a simple white page with links. Wasn't until I read this thread that I tried IE and saw that there was, in fact, a design. If you're using IE, the design is acually pretty nice. The only problem is that you can only view it in IE, which is not neccessarily a problem, depending on your audience. That's what this comes down to, who is this page for?

If it's for yourself only, then that's fine. Doesn't really need to work in any other browser, and hell you don't even need a free webhost - you can save the page to your computer and use it as a homepage.

If it's meant for other people in general, then you've got some work to do - but you've also done a lot. You used a WYSIWYG editor, many many of us used them at first, and the problems you are having with cross-browser compatibility is exactly why many, many of us don't use these editors. Microsoft also has a reputation for the most notoriously IE-biased programs around. If you're really serious about making a webpage, you're going to have to learn HTML and CSS - and you won't be sorry. They offer much.

Visually, as I said before, very nice. You have some instances of overlapping text and text larger than it's containers, but I think that's due to your technical difficulties with a WYISWYG editor.

Content-wise, as it is, I see very little interest from people. It's too generic, too much of everything, impersonal, and yet too focused at the same time - if that makes any sense. You've a nice design, and if you did something like the Google Homepage (http://www.google.com/ig) it could really take off. Customization is your friend and is what people want. With some Javascript and some server side programming you can have a page that people can customize to their liking - putting in their own links, adding/subtracting/moving around windows and such. Maybe even adding information such as headlines, quotations, weather, and the such. Similar to Google Homepage (though honestly I'm a bit more fond of your design) with of course your own spin on it.

Keep it up and keep it going!

[Zacku]

if you did something like the Google Homepage it could really take off.
Thank u so much for ur comments MstrBob, u read minds superbly!
I was planning this very same idea of letting my own users customize there home page, not just havin Google alone or Yahoo! alone, but everything together! But i aint technically such a very gud programmer to create a fully customizable home page, but believe me I really had that in mind!!
If it's for yourself only, then that's fine. Doesn't really need to work in any other browser, and hell you don't even need a free webhost - you can save the page to your computer and use it as a homepage.

Now as a matter of fact, I am the lone user of my homepage(I have it saved to my hard-disk, and it is my home page, so when i open the browser, it loads lightning quick!, and it hence serves the purpose for me!!)
But I actually created this website for the others to use, and im glad that somebody cud understand my feelings!
DO u really think this site can come effective?
If yes i wud require all teh help from u guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I once again Thank u all so much

[welsh]

with enough fine tuning, cross browser capability, and customizability, i personally dont see why not. it has all of the major sites in 1 easy place.

[ray326]

Wow. So much text, so little content. Your page is 145K of (MS)HTML. I suspect it could be reproduced in 10-15K using contemporary design and coding techniques.

[Zacku]

i think that was becoz i used Microsoft Publisher to create my website ( I didnt have Frontpage at the time I created the site), and i dont think if i had used Frontpage or any such WYSIWYG programs the code wud have been this long.

[Zacku]

Does my site load properly in Opera? Any who uses Opera please tell me .... :)

[pcthug]

Yes it works in Opera.

[Zacku]

What if I create my site again using Nvu or Dreamweaver, then will my site load using Microsoft Firefox???
(well if firefox cant support many of the sites, y du people use it?)

[JPnyc]

Microsoft has nothing to do with firefox, except perhaps that IE's holes have helped it to prosper.

[NogDog]

Part of the problem is you are using the wrong doctype for your frameset page. You should be using this one:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

[David Harrison]

Yes it works in Opera.It works, but similar to how it works in Firefox. I've attached a (highly compressed) screen-shot of how it renders in IE 6, Opera 8.51 and Firefox 1.5.

if firefox cant support many of the sites, y du people use it?Most browsers closely support the recommendations layed out by the W3C, the main two recommendations I'm thinking of are the HTML and CSS recommendations. IE 6 supports quite a lot of these, however not all, and it's sometimes quite difficult to get a layout to work properly in IE, because Microsoft thought it would be fun to make it handle some CSS rules differently.

Then they really went to town, take a look at your page source:<v:shapetype id="_x0000_t202" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="202" path="m,l,21600r21600,l21600,xe">
<v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/>
<v:path gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/>
</v:shapetype>It's semi-readable, and I can sort of work out what it does, but it's certainly not HTML. But if you use Office to make sites, that's exactly what you get by the bucket load.

That's why your site looks nothing like you expect in real browsers (IE is of course not a real browser, and technically I believe it doesn't fit the definition of a browser). It is not the fault of Firefox or Opera, it's the fault of the program that you used, because all it generated was proprietary IE-only code.

[xtecltd]

i built my site with nvu and thats all i use and i never checked if it opened or viewed in other browsers so i downloaded fire fox and opera and its fine
so if your going to use a program to edit your site i would use nvu

[welsh]

hey, when you are trying to make a site as you want it to be the next big thing. its best to have a bunch of the most commonly used browsers and test and make sure it works in all of them. IE i think is the most used but firefox and others are rising.

[Zacku]

Oh **** ! i didnt know that my site looked like that in opera !
btw, im interested in creating a site that wud be fully customizable like adding our own links, dragging and drop etc, du u think it will be beyond my reach? Also i wud require all ur help...

[Zacku]

Excuse me plzzzzzzzz......!!
I really need all your help and expertise in creating my website, coz i dont know where or how to start !! Plz du help me here !! I would also like to know from you guys whether a site like this wud be useful to others and whether it wud be effective!!

[omnicity]

I would also like to know from you guys whether a site like this wud be useful to others and whether it wud be effective!!

To be blunt, no I don't think it would.
Reason One: I can't see what this site offers that you don't get with your own bookmarks, or with one of the existing 'portable bookmark' sites/applications.

Reason Two:
I really need all your help and expertise in creating my website, coz i dont know where or how to start !!
What you have described needs a lot of expertise that you don't yet have, and don't even know yet that you need to learn.

Reason Three:
Any successful site needs a professional host, and a plan to cope with the desired expansion etc.

Reason Four:
A successful site needs finance to cover the costs of a professional host. I can't see where you intend to get the cash from, since your functional model is directly at odds with the needs of an advertiser.

However, all of the greatest men in history have some quote or other about 'triumph over adversity'...