Accessibility Issues for Client

[eegvt]

When showing client a portfolio page of my work the formatting/font size was all over the place. My guess is it is the configuration of her computer as noone else has had issues viewing work (including other AOL users). In checking other student's work (on college server for our class), it is throwing their work off as well. W3C issue? Doesn't make a good first impression...

[toicontien]

It could be, but since you haven't given us any information about the page in question (related HTML, CSS and JavaScript), nor what operating system, browser and browser version the client is using, we can't really help you.

But yes, if a user changes the system default font sizes, it can screw things up. If she was using Internet Explorer/Win, text may not always be resizable. If you want IE-Win users to be able to resize their text via browser settings (and you should), then specify font sizes in em or % for best results. Any other font size unit prevents IE-Win users from adjusting the font size using the View > Text Size menu.

Internet Explorer 7, now in beta, doesn't have this issue. The font sizes being all other the place could be from some blocks of text being specified in pixels (which won't get resized) and other blocks of text specified in ems or % (which can get resized).

[eegvt]

Thank you for your response. As to the operating system the client has, I am not sure, I would guess it is not up to date and she has dial up only. The browser she is using is through AOL.

Most of the work we have done as class projects do not have much if any java scripting. All work has been done in Dreamweaver 8 working with basic HTML/XHTML coding, some flash files/occassional streaming video. We have been using CSS for 90% of each project done and upload our projects to a student server at college.

I was somewhat relieved to see that it happened to other classmate's work as well and found it interesting that other AOL users didn't have the same problem.

I just wanted to check to see if it was something on our end in the formatting procedure or simply that particular user's system/browser set up. Sorry...I could not provide you with her operating system, but as mentioned, I'm sure it's older.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it, it's been driving me nuts.

[eegvt]

p.s. It wasn't just the font sizes that were affected (greatly enlarged, irregular) but the navbar, content and banners were thrown off too. Not where original css instructions had placed them.

Correction: Browser, I believe is WIN/IE but she has designated AOL as her homepage.

[toicontien]

Depending on what version of AOL she has (which changes which version of Internet Explorer she has) it might not fully support CSS 2.0. I wrote a post a while back on how best to link to style sheets: http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=464133&postcount=10

I still don't have enough information on her browser, but that's just the way it goes. Can you link to the affected page or pages?

[eegvt]

Hi: Thanks for your response. Sorry about the lack of info on her browser. I'll give them a call next week and ask. I appreciate your help so much. It is difficult to get much feeback from our instructor.

There seems to be much opinion about the use of tables vs frames and css sheets with regard to accessibility. Frankly, I prefer tables because it's easier to manipulate data. Most of my experience has been in desktop publishing (Pagemaker, etc...) so I'm so used to using textboxes and being able to move things around without re-inventing the wheel. So...a bit like Pavlov's dog eh...re-training to get used to having a few more steps using css to ensure everything comes out as it should.

I am searching for someone I can sit down and go over a few things with here locally (tutor, if you will). Have other questions, that hands on would benefit. Will contact my client next week and ask what her details on her browser and operating system is.

How long have you been a Web Developer? What is your preferred method?

Again....many, many thanks for your help, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

Best....Eve

[toicontien]

I've been in the business professionally for about 2 years, but I've been involved semi professionally through my college's newspaper for about 4 years. So about 6 years total.

... There seems to be much opinion about the use of tables vs frames and css sheets with regard to accessibility. Frankly, I prefer tables because it's easier to manipulate data.
Mm... Not necessarily. Tables vs CSS are different ways of presenting data, not manipulating it. CSS has a sharper learning curve because it IS more involved, however browser differences in CSS support are the biggest hurdles to get over. Not the CSS standard itself. Such is life.

Most of my experience has been in desktop publishing (Pagemaker, etc...) so I'm so used to using textboxes and being able to move things around without re-inventing the wheel.
Funny you should say this. CSS design is exactly "moving boxes around." Non table tags are boxes. Nothing more. They have little relation to one another when compared to cells in a table. In fact, table based layouts ARE reinventing the wheel. You want boxes you can move around, but tables give you immoveable grids.

So...a bit like Pavlov's dog eh...re-training to get used to having a few more steps using css to ensure everything comes out as it should.
No. CSS layouts mean additional training. Table based layouts will be around for quite a while. CSS layouts are a different method. An additional method.

[Zarel]

Funny you should say this. CSS design is exactly "moving boxes around." Non table tags are boxes. Nothing more. They have little relation to one another when compared to cells in a table. In fact, table based layouts ARE reinventing the wheel. You want boxes you can move around, but tables give you immoveable grids.
Clarification: Non-table BLOCK (and inline-block) tags are boxes. Non-table inline tags are the shape of whatever's inside of them.

I prefer CSS-based layouts for accessibility reasons. Plus, tables are for making tables, not for making layouts.

[eegvt]

Thanks for your feedback...the tables vs css issue certainly is an interesting topic. I've heard pros and cons on both sides. Feel like I'm the lone Democrat in a room full of Republicans in the Dubai Ports deal...I like CSS very much, just haven't become 100% comfortable with them yet. They make sense and you are both correct, it is much easier to control what goes on with them. I've read that the use of css with tables, etc. is now called "transitional" because web design is constantly evolving.

So much to learn! Practice, practice, practice...!

[Green-Beast]

I wonder, not seeing the CSS, if the fonts are out of whack in IE, it *could* be because the first font-size spec is in em. If this is so, then this will trigger an IE bug causing the fonts to resize by HUGE amounts because it bases it's size relative to the last size instead of the browser settings. To correct this use a % unit on the first font-size in the CSS, then you can safely use em from that point on.

Not *seeing* the problem, markup, or CSS makes this nothing more than a guess.

HTH.

Mike

[Robert Wellock]

Tables went out of fashion last century and were only really stopgaps for version 4 browsers.