I need help in understanding a few things.

I read the sticky, and I have already checked out the link given to the php tutorial. I've also watched countless video tutorials, and read numerous other articles. I'm just not getting the feel/format for php.

I'm new to programming languages in general and have a css html javascript background. The way that Php is written just isn't sinking in no matter what I read.

Please, can someone break the usage of characters and when they should be applied down into some uberly simple statement so I can get it?

I find myself spending tons of hours working on a code just to find out I forgot to add a { or a ( or a ; .....yet I can't understand how to know when to use them. It's killing my progress in general. Once I figure out where I left "what" out, my code usually works. It's extremely frustrating!

I understand the noobishness of this topic, and I'm full well ready to be laughed at lol. But could you please include a simple breakdown within your laughters? I'm a good sport.. that's all I ask lol.

If you find it so difficult, do you think programming is really for you? What are your previous experiences?

Starting with programming is a difficult task. You need to be patient. Videos are not the way to go - this is a programming language, not a theoretical physics. I highly recommend taking classes in university about basics of programming and web programming and ordering some books online that are about programming but are also about a loose-tutorial, where a project of some kind is made.

Trust me that a forum answers won't get you over the hump here. You yourself will, if you want it enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kristovaher

If you find it so difficult, do you think programming is really for you? What are your previous experiences?

Starting with programming is a difficult task. You need to be patient. Videos are not the way to go - this is a programming language, not a theoretical physics. I highly recommend taking classes in university about basics of programming and web programming and ordering some books online that are about programming but are also about a loose-tutorial, where a project of some kind is made.

Trust me that a forum answers won't get you over the hump here. You yourself will, if you want it enough.

---

I've taught myself html, css, javascript, and ruby on rails all by either researching or asking questions just like this one. I've had no problems learning any of them, so I'd say I'm sure programming is for me. I've done it without dumping out my wallet or needing the attention of a teacher persistently. Every great once in awhile though, even us do it yourselfers need a hand at "something". We are human.

Videos for me have been a life saver and extremely helpful to my progress. Sites like thenewboston.org ... irreplacable.

There are 3 types of learners typically referred to in the educational world. Not all of us fall into the category of needing institutionalized learning.

While your response is understandable based on your own unique needs and experiences, I'm just looking for a simple "outside of the box" way to look at it.

Should anyone know of any easy tricks like maybe an acronym you were taught or ect... let me know.

If you know Javascript then the syntax for PHP should come relatively easy IMO.

Variables must be prefixed with a dollar:

PHP Code:

---

$x = 123;
$my_variable = 456; 


---

You use curly braces/round brackets when defining functions, classes or creating blocks of statements (if, while, switch, for, etc):

PHP Code:

---

function example($arg1, $arg2, $arg3 = 'default')
{
    //statements
}

if (true) {
    //statements
}

for ($i = 0; $i < 10; $i++) {
    //statements
}

while (true) {
    //statements
}

switch ($value) {
    case 1:
        //statement
        break;
    case 2:
        //statement
        break;
}

class Name_Of_Class 
{ 
    function Name_Of_Class($param1, $param2) 
    { 
        //statements 
    }
    
    function example($value)
    {
        //statements 
    }
} 

$instance = new Name_Of_Class('param1 value', 'param2 value');
$instance->example('value'); 


---

Semi-colons have to be placed at the end of each statement or assignment, just like it "should" be done in Javascript.

There are hundreds of already defined functions in PHP, best place to look them up is in the PHP manual: http://php.net/manual/en/index.php

If you have a more specific requirement/problem just say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noobtastical

I read the sticky, and I have already checked out the link given to the php tutorial. I've also watched countless video tutorials, and read numerous other articles. I'm just not getting the feel/format for php.

I'm new to programming languages in general and have a css html javascript background. The way that Php is written just isn't sinking in no matter what I read.

Please, can someone break the usage of characters and when they should be applied down into some uberly simple statement so I can get it?

I find myself spending tons of hours working on a code just to find out I forgot to add a { or a ( or a ; .....yet I can't understand how to know when to use them. It's killing my progress in general. Once I figure out where I left "what" out, my code usually works. It's extremely frustrating!

I understand the noobishness of this topic, and I'm full well ready to be laughed at lol. But could you please include a simple breakdown within your laughters? I'm a good sport.. that's all I ask lol.

---

You desperately need to turn error reporting on. That ate up about 15 hours of my time when I started... Without an error message, how the Foobar am i supposed to know what I'm doing wrong... or at least: which line I'm doing the "wrong" on.

At the top of your script, put this:

PHP Code:

---

error_reporting (E_ALL | E_STRICT); 
ini_set('display_errors', 'On'); 
ini_set('error_log', 'my_file.log'); 


---

It will make PHP be verbose about the errors in your script. Error reporting is fundamental to all types of programming. I'm sure if you have a javascript background, you have some type of tool built into your browser that will tell you about the errors in your javascript.

Now, the syntax (rules) of PHP... Wow that's a big topic, especially because PHP is very very very free in terms of how you can express the same thing multiple ways:

PHP Code:

---


#traditional way, common in most languages
if(true) {
  echo "true";
}


# you can skip the brackets, and PHP 
# will execute the if as part of the same statement.
if(true) echo "true"; 

#you can skip the if and use lazy logic
true && echo "true";

#you can avoid a fatal error doing this
true || die('this wont be executed');

#you can force PHP to continue by forcing it to evaluate the rest of a logical expression
$x = true xor echo $x; #usually you don't want this

#you can use a ternary operator (/*if*/ true ? /*then*/ {statement when true} : /*else*/ { statement when false }

echo true ? "true" : "false"; 


---

I really like programming, although at first I felt hopelessly weak and stupid. You can learn ABOUT programming from a book, but if you want to learn HOW to program you must actually try it, fail, fail some more, possibly get a win. At first, there will be a lot more fail than win. There will probably be some EPIC fail and possibly even some OMG :mad: (mad). Just don't pull your hair out, you'll go bald that way.

You however, are still having trouble with the rules of the language (syntax). You should probably learn a little bit more ABOUT PHP, before you learn how to use it. I believe the php.net website has some tutorials.

Don't like tutorials? Neither do I: if you're a hacker-type I would recommend you look at the PHP keywords, understand how to use them. Then look at the function reference, and perhaps even pick up an IDE such as PDT Eclipse. It will probably save you a lot of time, since you're going to have simple syntax errors in your simple statements. PDT is great at warning you- "hey, something is wrong on this line... I wasn't expecting a bracket right here!!! }" although it is going to be the actual message "Unexpected } on line _____".

But don't be fooled. Anyone can understand the rules, they're simple. Using them to your advantage is the hard part (99.95% of the work), you will have to constantly work at this to get better. ;)

First off, I disagree entirely that a university level course is the way to go when it comes to learning "the basics of programming". In fact, university is probably not the best place to learn programming at all because that's "higher education", not basics. IMO, self taught programmers are usually more skilled or naturally talented because of the fact that everything they learn has to be off their own back; consequently paving the way for a way of thinking that can't be learnt in university or shown by a tutor. In all honesty, programming basics aren't nearly as complicated or difficult as beginners seem to think. I mean what's so hard about boolean logic? true, false and nothing in between. Logical statements, loops, variables, data types, functions, structures, classes, etc. are all easy concepts when taught the correct way, the difficult part is implementing clever techniques.

Now on to the point of the OP; if you have a JavaScript background, it would seem absurd that you don't understand where entities like {, ( and ; are used. I can't think of a way to learn programming or coding to the point where one may claim to "know" a language, yet not understand the very basics such as braces, parentheses and statement terminators. I agree with kristovaher where he says this post will not help you with respect to learning programming, but I also think you need to go back to basics of programming, not specifics to any language.

The learning curve gets progressively easier as you learn more languages and in fairness, there's no acceptable reason why you may claim to know JavaScript yet struggle with PHP basics. Nearly all medium-to-high level languages such as JS, PHP, C++, Java, etc. share the same basic syntax and if you know one, you have a great advantage in learning the other. A logical statement in JavaScript is the same as a logical statement in PHP is the same as a logical statement in Java is the same as a logical statement... etc.. Basic syntax should not be a hindrance. Your problem seems to be that you don't understand concepts, in which case a more thorough theoretical approach would be in order before you begin programming in a new language.

In all honesty I would never have given PHP to someone as a learning language, and I always hold the opinion that learning to program with a general-purpose programming language is a better way to learn how to code. However, since you've learn HTML and CSS it would seem you're obviously keen and willing to teach yourself, which is a trait well worth noting.

I don't think I can offer much help with respect to programming at this stage, but if I were to advise you, I would recommend you begin learning the following in this order:

Variables (*),
Logical statements (*),
Loops(*),
Arrays(*),
Operators(*)
Functions,
Classes,
Pointers

Those I've marked red are probably the most important things in that list for someone at your level in programming. Building a thorough base upon which to build your understanding is tantamount to your success in programming.

Hope my words have helped, even if only slightly.

I don't know what IDE you are using to code your stuff in, but there is a PHP flavored version of Eclipse and if you put your click near a (, ), {, or } it will highlight were the corresponding one is. If you don't have one, it gives a red "x" in the margin to let you know you have an error in your code. If you are missing an ; it will let you know as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by George88

First off, I disagree entirely that a university level course is the way to go when it comes to learning "the basics of programming". In fact, university is probably not the best place to learn programming at all because that's "higher education", not basics. IMO, self taught programmers are usually more skilled or naturally talented because of the fact that everything they learn has to be off their own back; consequently paving the way for a way of thinking that can't be learnt in university or shown by a tutor.

---

I have yet to be impressed with a programming course done by a university. Granted, my experiences are too few to really make much of a statement, but I tend to bang my head against the wall when dealing with being taught programming at the university level.

My list off issues looks something like this.

- The books are very dry and cover the bare minimums.
- Some "complete" books are overly wordy. I don't need a 800-1K page book. Shut up and get to the point.
- Non-practical applications being built. Granted, normal books suffer from this as well.
- Feeling like I have to unlearn what I was taught since what I was taught wasn't remotely practical in terms of real world usage. This was years ago, but being told we needed to design a site with a table based layout. :mad:
- Knowing there are far better books to learn from and yet buying and using an inferior book. If you learn on your own, you get to find the best book you can and for cheaper.

This is a good place for a starter. You can skim through the stuff you can easily pick up.

http://devzone.zend.com/6/php-101-ph...lute-beginner/

Beginning PHP 5.3 by Matt Doyle is my current default pick for best book for a beginner to work through. An article he wrote helped me rethink how to use classes to the point my cms/blog tool I was nearly finished with is getting a complete rewrite when I get the chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eval(BadCode)

Don't like tutorials? Neither do I: if you're a hacker-type I would recommend you look at the PHP keywords, understand how to use them. Then look at the function reference, and perhaps even pick up an IDE such as PDT Eclipse. It will probably save you a lot of time, since you're going to have simple syntax errors in your simple statements. PDT is great at warning you- "hey, something is wrong on this line... I wasn't expecting a bracket right here!!! }" although it is going to be the actual message "Unexpected } on line _____".

But don't be fooled. Anyone can understand the rules, they're simple. Using them to your advantage is the hard part (99.95% of the work), you will have to constantly work at this to get better. ;)

---

Thank you, that was very helpful indeed and more so what I needed. Explaining things as a brand new language is usually what I run into with most tutorials, but when someone is able to do comparisons to something I've known prior as you did in several points it really helps.

That's what I mean by people learn different. For me, if I'm ever stuck on something I find that it's usually just a matter of me hearing/reading it the right way. So for someone to do an outside of the box breakdown proves very resourceful.

Thanks as well for the tip on how to get good error reporting. That will definitely come in handy.

I've got a new toy to go play with now lol.

@spufi

To be honest I hate books. I've never used books to learn programming, I always found video tutorials and web sites much easier for teaching concepts and principles.

My first experience with code was HTML and PHP, which I learnt from VTC.com video tutorials. The absolute best programming tutorials I found were by an Australian programming instructor named Mark Virtue. It was a complete C programming set from beginning to end, but his entire demeanor and style made learning and understanding so easy. I would actually recommend PHP coders learn C or C++ as well because most people are unaware of the relationship between the two, and understanding the roots of a language like PHP would offer insight not gained elsewhere (an example I gave in another thread was the relationship between variables->structures->classes). The struct doesn't exist in PHP so learning classes, which are an extension of structures, is made somewhat more difficult. If the person already knows what a structure is, they'll be a long way towards understanding classes that little bit more thoroughly. The same is true for datatypes which also don't have much of a place in PHP, which leads to a non-understanding of how certain pieces of data interact with one another.

Out of all the languages I would say that PHP and JavaScript are my least favourite to work with. Not because they're bad languages or aren't necessary, but because they fly in the face of much of what I already knew from C/C++. I am just glad I learnt C/C++ before I began coding in PHP and JavaScript, because my understanding of programming is much richer for it :-).

Thank you everyone for your help here. Awesomeness!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by George88

First off, I disagree entirely that a university level course is the way to go when it comes to learning "the basics of programming". In fact, university is probably not the best place to learn programming at all because that's "higher education", not basics. IMO, self taught programmers are usually more skilled or naturally talented because of the fact that everything they learn has to be off their own back; consequently paving the way for a way of thinking that can't be learnt in university or shown by a tutor.

---

In short, there are no shortcuts to becoming a programmer. A degree from a university won't make you anything and it isn't a prerequisite for programming. I attend a university and less than 3% of the time I spend programming is in class or for class. You have to do it on your own or with friends. I only happen to be somewhat decent at programming because it's so much fun for me, some days I wake up in the morning and just can't wait to start. I love getting better at UML, EER/ERDs, expanding the possibilities with different types of programming styles (functional, anonymous recursion, object oriented, procedural, closures, circular data structures, ...), mixing them and creating a grotesque mountain of code, then refining it, encapsulating and abstracting it, building upon it, sharing it, incorporating other people's code into my code base, and so on. It's that moment where I drop a pointed arrow in UMLet to another class and it makes perfect sense, I think to myself: "I am doing this in such a clever way that I will be done in 1/5th the time and have better code overall. I feel sorry for those who can't apply the rules of OOP to their advantage, but they have had every opportunity to do so and have not taken it.", or that moment when someone tells me my project idea is "lofty/unrealistic" and I show them that the entire project is less than 50 lines of code. That person had no idea that I'm a programmer and not a pretender, most likely that person only programmed inside of a classroom and had absolutely no imagination when it comes to code. It's that moment when I revisit an old project and turn 400 lines of code into 35 lines using only three statements instead of 100+ statements and also removed 4 bugs. It just clicks; I can see how the information must be transformed, evaluate the situation, and apply the best techniques I know. Perhaps in another year or two I can turn that 35 lines into 15. It's that moment when I'm editing packets on the fly using callback functions hooked into the kernel packet filter and end up stopping an attacker because they haven't experienced a fuzzy wall where every port seemingly replies with a SYN-ACK and follow up ACK gets them a PUSH of fake data. This is why I consider myself a programmer. It's all one big game to me, some people are REALLY good at it, some people- well, some people struggle... and they'll eventually get there, but only if they want it bad enough. :p

Don't be afraid to ask for help when you're stuck. There's almost always someone here that can help break you out of your own OODA loop. ;)