Tips for Reviews & Requests

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Originally Posted by LiLcRaZyFuZzY

And corporate sites often have way more traffic than personnal or small business sites, when you code your page with semantic markup and style it with CSS, your files size will drop a lot -> less bandwidth consumption and faster loading

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Ok great Idea but there is a problem I don’t know a lot about CSS. Any way thanks

There’s a great community out there for support, so if you have questions on how to get started with CSS design or other CSS-related questions, you can start in the CSS forum.

I agree with Jona. CSS is the future.
And... it's sooooooo much easier to code with css !!!
I used to table-code my designs, it was such a pain. Now, with css, it's really easier. And if you want to change one thing, you can do it easily with css-based designs...
Tables are really complicated, I think...
( but still, I prefer to use them for the forms and some little stuff on my site... sometimes, why bother with lines of css when you can do it with a table ? moreover, some of the css features ( float, for example ) are not well supported by Opera )

but they will eventually be supported...so i also agree, CSS is the future

http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/full-checklist.html
People SHOULD do that check list before the post here

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Originally Posted by HostBreak

Ok great Idea but there is a problem I don’t know a lot about CSS. Any way thanks

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u learn eventually, some of us were fortuniate because we originally use to use tables for layout used the font tags, and we went through the hard coding, then we upgraded and learnt the hardway, we are just trying to make it easier for you in the long run, trust us wen we tell you to use css for layout. everybody has to start to learn, but if you can learn straight away the right way you wont get into any bad habbits.

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Originally Posted by zachzach

Equal Height with differently colored collumns

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Just thought I'd drop by here again; wasn't sure if this was answered. Anyhow, it is possible to do full columns without doing faux-columns. You do it by setting massive borders on the containing element, and then using negative margins to pull the side columns into those areas. (yay negative margins!)

If you want tiled images in the column, areas, you just nest wrappers. This is demonstrated in the liquid piefecta.

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Originally Posted by Jona

Reviewers

When reviewing a Web site, do so in a more detailed manner. Often I see replies such as, "Lose the tables for layout, use CSS and semantic, meaningful markup." In fact, I see such replies too often. It casts a careless atomosphere about, and causes a very negative attitude. A better approach would be to explain how and more importantly why. If you're in a hurry or sidetracked, perhaps you should avoid replying until you can dive deeper into the site you are reviewing. Often times, if you are replying hastily, you either miss important things or appear careless. This is frustrating. Parents, though not particularly interested in "childish games," participate to show their love. In the same way, we should review Web sites with care, even if we are not interested in the actual purpose of the site. Don't try to review every site, unless you feel lead; you are not obliged to respond to any one of them. I say this because, again, a careless, quick response often turns out negative. The purpose of this forum is more to help web developers see their errors and possibly learn new design skills, ideas, and useful practices. I believe if we are more specific and careful, our posts will be much more positive, convincing and helpful.

Review Requesters

I am going to explain a few things which are relevant to any design you make. Most of these statements are technical.

- Validate your HTML. In every web site you ask to be reviewed, someone is going to check the validity of your HTML code. You can use the W3C HTML validator to beat them to the punch, however. What is valid HTML? Allow me to explain further. Each document requires a document type declaration (DTD). You have to define, in the first line of your HTML code, just what is allowed. If you don't, browsers revert to a default one (usually, though not always, HTML 4.01 Transitional). A DTD specifies all allowed HTML elements. If you use an HTML element that is not in the DTD specification - whether or not it "works" in the browser - it is invalid. More information can be found at <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html>.

- Do not use tables. The purpose of tables is for tabular data - what you see in Excel spreadsheets. Columns and rows. Using tables for layout makes absolutely no sense. For you it may be different, but chances are if you want to design with tables, you don't suffer from any form of disability. There are many blind, dyslexic, and other handicapped users who browse the Internet. And, though you may not realize it, these sites can become very confusing. What's more, the W3C has a specification regarding accessibility. You should always respect and obey the rules set by the W3C; doing otherwise is promoting bad practices and discouraging the proper use of recommended technologies. The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines specify all the rules that you should take into consideration when designing a site. It is generally a good idea to avoid breaking any of them, but you should always strive for priority 2 accessibility (known as "AA"). You may notice, in the WCAG (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines mentioned above), that it says you can use tables for layout if they linearize. This is absolutely not recommended, as it breaks priority 1. It means, basically, if you can see the table-based layout well enough in a text-only browser, then your layout is bearable. However, it is breaking priority one and therefore is a very bad practice. Instead of using tables for your layout, use Cascading Stylesheets. Their purpose is for Web site design. Their use also saves you file space and bandwidth (because of cache). You can include a single file on each page and use minimal markup (excluding actual text content) to turn 8KB files into 4KB ones. Need more reasons or a longer, more in-depth explanation?

- For users with CSS: use valid CSS. Colored scrollbars, proprietary "filters," and the like are not recommended W3C technologies and are not specified in the CSS2 specification. Hence, they are invalid CSS and should not be used.

- Do not depend on client-side scripting of any kind. I know, we all love those beautiful JavaScript menus. But what's wrong with using CSS-based menus that do the same thing? Oh, so you want that cool, sliding effect? Great, use JavaScript, but just make sure the menu works without JavaScript. How? Develop the menu to work, and then if you're using JavaScript anyway, replace the CSS menu with a JavaScript one. Also, avoid javascript:function() links. Link to an alternate, non-JavaScript page and use the onclick event handler with a return false statement to run a function and prevent the browser from being redirected to the non-JavaScript page.

- High-contrast hurts, but helps; high-contrast helps, but hurts. "It's a cool site! It has a black background, red text, and an awesome fiery header image!" So it's valid HTML, CSS, and uses semantic markup. That's great, but how's it on the eyes? Black backgrounds tend to be strenuous. These high-contrast sites can be difficult to view for a lot of users. However, don't turn around and use a white background with light-blue text that is not readable. Make sure your colors contrast enough, but not too much. Often a white background with medium-colored text or a medium-colored background with light text is the best choice (though light text on a light background may work well sometimes). You want your text readable and not strenuous, but you don't want the site to look ugly as a result. This is a key point for those of you who are on free web hosts (see below); when first starting out, you may like the black background and red text, however it is tough on the eyes and 99.9% of the time is the worst choice you can make. Updated: 10/16/04.

- Test your site in multiple browsers. Do you browse happy in a browser, or do you muck around the Web in a proprietary markup translator? Hopefully the first. There are alternatives for your default browser. Check your site in other browsers to ensure that it functions properly. If it doesn't, you're probably breaking priority 2 somewhere along the line. ;)

- Avoid free web hosts that give advertisements. It's acceptable to use if you're just beginning, and need somewhere to place your work for others to view, but do not try to make a free host your perminent residence. Advertisements - popups, banners, especially - are very annoying and will cause your site to look much different (worse) than it would in the first place. Added on 10/16/04.

That's it, I hope this post helps those reviewing sites and requesting their site to be reviewed!

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HAHAHA, I just found this, it makes me laugh. First off, I don't think you understand tables correctly or your w3c validation reason. CSS is for the lazy people that can't code or know how to design a good website. I can do alot more with tables then you can with a CSS site. Its easier to change things on the fly without interupting the layout of the whole page. Those who don't understand this never will. HTML is for the lazy people with no imagination.

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Instead of using tables for your layout, use Cascading Stylesheets. Their purpose is for Web site design. Their use also saves you file space and bandwidth (because of cache). You can include a single file on each page and use minimal markup (excluding actual text content) to turn 8KB files into 4KB ones. Need more reasons or a longer, more in-depth explanation?

- For users with CSS: use valid CSS. Colored scrollbars, proprietary "filters," and the like are not recommended W3C technologies and are not specified in the CSS2 specification. Hence, they are invalid CSS and should not be used.

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To always have the correct CSS, I recommend http://www.somacon.com/p334.php

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Originally Posted by Vrking

HAHAHA, I just found this, it makes me laugh. First off, I don't think you understand tables correctly or your w3c validation reason. CSS is for the lazy people that can't code or know how to design a good website. I can do alot more with tables then you can with a CSS site. Its easier to change things on the fly without interupting the layout of the whole page. Those who don't understand this never will. HTML is for the lazy people with no imagination.

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So you don't like CSS or HTML? What the hell do you make sites with? CSS is, incase you really are as stupid as you come across for the communication of presentational infomation. Quite why you think that you can't change a CSS file on the fly without affecting the layout I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by the tree

So you don't like CSS or HTML? What the hell do you make sites with? CSS is, incase you really are as stupid as you come across for the communication of presentational infomation. Quite why you think that you can't change a CSS file on the fly without affecting the layout I have no idea.

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Actually, html and CSS was developed so stupid people can make pretty sites. It also take no programming knowledge to use this stuff. Maybe if you try to do some real programming, you would know all this crap. Instead of using paint by numbers layout and designs.


Just so you know that I do know about it :Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) is a simple mechanism for adding style (e.g. fonts, colors, spacing) to Web documents. Tutorials, books, mailing lists for users, etc. In other words, its onl html crap that a 2 year old can use. In other words, you are all folowers and have no imagination or style of your own. It is also know that alot of browsers dono't handle CSS well.Think about why they have this w3c validation for, its so it can tell you if it will work in a browser or not. In the end, it really doesn't matter as long as the site load on the users browsers.

Hi -

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Actually, html and CSS was developed so stupid people can make pretty sites.

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Wha?
Who's this kid who has two posts, makes statements like this, then has nothing to back it up with except for a snotty demeanor?

= whacked!

El

hahahah lol he wont be postin again

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Originally Posted by dera

hahahah lol he wont be postin again

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What do you mean. I don't need to post any more. Look at the facts already posted. I will state the facts already. These standards were made so stupid people like Dera can throw together a website without having any problems on how it looks in any browser. When the fact is, if it wasn't for this,then stupid people would not make their own site. The more I look around, I see all these ****ty sites that lack imagination, white back grounds all coded with html, try to make the w3c complient. When in reality, if they got off their asses and learnt how to do things on their own and not follow the masses, they probally would have a good website design. To me, following w3c standards removes ones individualality.In other words, you can't think for yourself by following someone else.Just like dera has been. taking others work and calling it her own.

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Originally Posted by Vrking

The more I look around, I see all these ****ty sites that lack imagination, white back grounds all coded with html, try to make the w3c complient. When in reality, if they got off their asses and learnt how to do things on their own and not follow the masses, they probally would have a good website design.

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Dude, seriously, wtf?