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Thread: evil browsers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002

    evil browsers

    Ok.. Have the basic layout and all doneof my site in css, and it appears ok in ie 5.5, opera 7, ns 7, mozila, avant, etc.

    However since there are stillso many people out there using outdated technology (come on! Just download the latest ver of your browsers already!!!) , what would be the best method to display my site in older browsers like netscape 4.x?

    I run netscape 4.79 at work and its just horrid what it does to my layout...

    So hould i create a separate stylesheet that works for ns 4, modify this one using some tricks you guys know, or just use jscript to determine the browser, then route to either the good page with css, or else the bad page made of frames?

    this is the layout in question

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Calgary, Canada
    Unfortunately you are out of luck there,I remember those day were nightmare,
    You will have to write separate style sheets for NS 4+

    Sorry for not being a great help



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    NS 4 is hovering around a 1% usagebas on average and is dropping users each day.

    Since NS 4 i so buggy with CSS and with such a low userbase generaly I would just disable the stylesheets for NS4 altogheter. This will make it look less pretty, but if the page is correctly coded to degrade gracefully all contentent will still be there in an easily understadable order.

    So how do you hide you CSS from NS 4 you ask?

    Well NS 4 doesn't understand @import so using external CSS files and eg
    <style title="Default" type="text/css" media="screen">
    @import "main.css";
    makes NS 4 ignore it all.

    If you still would like to provide some CSS for NS4 you can do something like this

    <script type="text/javascript">
    //Since NN4 requires Javascript to be on for CSS to work at all this method is 100% safe.
    if (document.layers) { document.write('<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="ns4.css" />'); }
    // Stefan Huszics

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    sad part is, a lot of isp's are still shipping out old browsers.. Qwest.net still ships out netscape 4.7 on all its software cd's, and you would be amazed by how many customers think they have no choice... that netscape 4 is all there is...
    But thnx for the help, maybe I'll try a ns4 sheet.. I dont know yet. My design doesnt degrade real nice.. heh

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    IE 5.5? I use 5.0, and I know several people in my country may be using browsers even older than that!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Unfortunately, I dont have access to older versions of IE to test it.. eventually as i get to other peoples houses, I will, but it will take time..

    So, just a question, why dont you upgrade?

    I mean, its a serious question. I've never understood why people stick with older versions of the software, when the newer versions do the same thing?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    I don't see why I should spend/waste money just to upgrade my current browser. After all, I'm perfectly fine using it, and it's just a generation older than 5.5. 6.0+ isn't commonly used yet (I believe), so 5.0 is reasonable.

    Of course, if I can get a new PC or something, I'll make sure it comes with the newest stuff. But I try not to spend unnecessarily.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    XYZZY - UK
    There are at least three main reasons they don't upgrade.

    They might not own the workstation, for example: the organisation dictates software distribution not the user.

    They might not have a machine up to minimal requirements to run the browser.

    Else they may lack the technical know-how, or knowledge that there is an improved version available and why it might justify and upgrade or migration to a "free browser" like Mozilla.

    Well, I'll tell you about my raw logs MSIE 6.0 usages is greater than both MSIE 5.0 and Mozilla/5.0 placed together. This month for the first time Opera 7.0 holds more usage than Netscape 4.7.

    Basically all mainstream version five browser cannot deal with CSS-P correctly and Mico$oft IE 6.0 is still very poor at rendering CSS-P.
    Last edited by Robert Wellock; 12-20-2002 at 08:47 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Also if people have to pay for their connect at 56k or slower it's not worth it for them. Esp. if they get cut off a lot (like I used to )

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    good points..

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Originally posted by Xeenslayer
    [B]I don't see why I should spend/waste money just to upgrade my current browser.
    Becuse older IE versions are just one huge security hole happily giving away your bankaccount logins or even downloading and installing viruses on your mashine (this is no joke).

    Even the latest IE 6 patched to oblivion got quite a few known security exploits, but most of the big horrible ones have at least been fixed.

    6.0+ isn't commonly used yet (I believe), so 5.0 is reasonable.
    Statistics show at 6+ being 50-60% of the IE hits on sites (which makes it #1 browser in use today by a good margin). The remaining 40-50% is about evenly divided by 5.0x and 5.5x with a occasional 4.x appearing here and there.
    // Stefan Huszics

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Yeah I know about the security gaps, but I don't do any online payment or download much (if any) things, so I'm not very bothered by that. I hope to get my PC changed soon, really.

    And I think that most net users in the West use newer versions of browsers. The figures you show don't really match the stats over here, really. I know most of my friends use 5.0 or around there.

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