It is really hitting the fan about IE8
In case you haven't been reading the blogs, Microsoft is really getting hit, again, about IE8, and now about their "IE8 Standards Mode". Web developers are furious about this. Microsoft even claims WASP helped them but, as it turns out, only a few of the members did but not the majority. In fact, many are not sure they even like this idea.
I'll supply links later if needed.
Last edited by WebJoel; 01-23-2008 at 03:44 PM.
How is setting the IE8 Standards Mode flag or whatever it is going to be different from using a doctype declaration as the first line to ensure that IE6/7 is not in quirks mode? In other words, will those of us who always do that to get IE6/7 into reasonably standards-compliant mode even going to need to worry about this new crap...I mean feature...in IE8?
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It will be a meta tag that needs to be present to switch the browser from IE7 standards mode to IE8 standards mode.
Since we will still need our pages to work in IE7 as well as 8 at least until the percentage of IE7 users falls low enough to ignore them there seems little point in triggering IE8 standards mode until that time and by then IE10 will be out.
It's so funny. Some people go to so much trouble to get out of work, when, if they had just did the job in the first place, it would have been much better. In MS's case, it's trying to dictate what the world will use, when, if they had just gotten line with everyone else when they had they 95%+ of the browser share, they wouldn't have a problem. But, sadly, that is not how MS works. "It's my way, or the highway!" MS is a very good example of how not to run a good business. If Gates had come along a bit later, the world would never have heard of him .....
""Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
" -- Sir Winston Churchill
I think the title of the first link drhowardfine posted sums up this whole discussion perfectly.
I'm just confused why IE8 needs an "actually supports the standards for real this time" mode when Firefox, Opera and Safari do not? I import my CSS hacks using conditional comments, not straight CSS. And when I did use straight CSS back in the day, I used * html hacks, which IE8 shouldn't be supporting anyway. ... so ... what is this accomplishing?
IE8 renders the Acid2 test "correctly." Great. They've fixed a ton of bugs. The voice-family hack should no longer work. The star-html hack should no longer work. Any transparent PNG problems have been resolved in IE7. IE7 basically just required hasLayout hacks, to which I used the zoom CSS property set to 1 (100%, being normal zoom).
Even if IE8 supports the zoom CSS property, it'll read it and keep the zoom level of the affected elements at normal. No harm. I just don't understand why they need a THIRD rendering mode? They don't want to break the web, because idiot web developers included a full doctype and then coded their pages badly. How is that Microsoft's fault, and something they need to fix? I'm willing to bet that a badly coded page with a proper doctype looks bad in Firefox, Opera and Safari as well. Now those of us who do things correctly are then punished?
Thing is, they're pulling this, and I've heard nothing but moans about Windows Vista. Could Linux be poised for a takeover?
Just to break your record
Windows Vista is working great for me. Up absolutely solid, speedy, and a few neat new gizmos on it. No issues here.
compair windows vista to any linux distro running compiz or beryl, however and windows appears slow, clunky and restrictive.
Oh, and I don't think I'll be adding that meta tag to anything I've wrote, at least not for a long time...
If you are using PHP please use the [PHP] and [/PHP] forum tags for highlighting...
The same applies to HTML and the forums [HTML][/HTML] tags.
I suspect that MS's IE8 rendering engine will be hardly used for a long time (as in years), because it won't save us any time or work. Until IE7 is completely phased out, all of us will still need to write the IE7 hacks.
So now imagine that you've tested your site in IE6, IE7, Firefox and Safari, and everything looks good. You know implicitly that IE8 will also look and work correctly because it will behave as IE7, which you've already written hacks for. So do you now say, "I'm finished! Woot!" Or do you say, "Hey, I don't think I've been working hard enough. Let's put IE8 into IE8 mode so that I have another browser to check and probably a new slew of bugs to work around."
If anything is going to take over, it will almost certainly be the Mac. Linux, even as far as it has come, still isn't the best choice for the barely computer-literate user.
I've heard nothing but moans about Windows Vista. Could Linux be poised for a takeover?
My home computer is running Ubuntu with Compiz (which is enabled by default). The virtual desktops (with the cube!) have been so nice that I unhooked my second monitor (never used it anymore) and used it to set up an old PC I had as a home media server. The Ubuntu/Compiz box will blow away any Vista box in terms of speed and sexiness. With the $200 wal mart PC's running 'nix selling out, I think people will realize that paying for an OS is no longer a necessity for the less tech savvy users. I don't think Linux will take over, but I expect its market share to grow significantly.
But that's not the point of this thread. I don't understand how MS still maintains it's market share after how many flubs that have been coming out of Redmond recently. Flawed IE7, IE8, Windows Live, Xbox 360 hardware failures (I love my 360 though), Vista, etc etc.
I agree with toicointen, why do the developers who develop to standards need to pay the price because other developers failed to realize that IE isn't the only browser out there. If we as developers need to sniff browser types via Conditional Comments, CSS Hacks, JS Object Detection to get our page to look right in IE, why can't the browser sniff the page to see if it's IE8 compatible or not?
I'm not an Anti-MS Fanboy (happily use XP at work, own a 360, and got my mom a Zune for x-mas), I just think that they seriously need to make some changes in their management style (can't blame the developers). I'm just tired of MS putting all the responsibility on our shoulders because of their previous mistakes.
That's a very good point. The Mac also has a certain "coolness" to it which Steve Jobs and his advertising execs play up very well.
Originally Posted by Jeff Mott
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