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Thread: What the heck should i learn?? im so confused

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    17

    What the heck should i learn?? im so confused

    hey what's up guys, im new over here, i registered on this website cause im sooo confused and i hope that you can help me.
    ok first off, i'd really like to become a web developer/designer at the same time and i just started out learning (im 20 by the way).
    i learned html and css and i think im pretty good with using them (not that much cause i have like 2 weeks of experience haha) but i remember EVERY tag by heart and i know how to use them all, i just lack of practice.
    so, at first, i created some basic pages just to practice a little and i can say that i could do almost everything i wanted to do and now i want to start doing something a little more serious.
    i dont want to learn javascript yet, cause i want to master first css and html "perfectly".
    so i started looking for some softwares (i've been using sublime text 3 to code and its pretty awesome), but i saw that most of the people on youtube, create layouts with photoshop and then "convert" them in html and css somehow (i was about to start learning how), but then i read that photoshop ain't the right software to use for webdesign and i should use something like fireworks but now fireworks is like "dead" (they're not updating it anymore) and thus i should use edge reflow, and here's my problem:
    • what my workflow has to be like?? what tools should i use?
    • should i only code without using any software like photoshop/dreamweaver/illustrator etc etc etc etc?
    • should i learn to use them to get the best out of layouts?
    • should i create a layout with photoshop and then export it to edge flow?
    • should i create the layout with photoshop and then export it to dreamweaver like many people do on youtube?
    • should i create everything with these tools even though i wont be coding THAT much? (i REALLY want to learn how to code.)


    sooo you got my point, im confused af haha can you help me out please? what should i learn how to do? now that i learned css and html how can i make the best website using only those 2?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Cairns - Australia
    Posts
    81
    Try everything!.. If thats what everyones doing, find out why?... Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Wordpress, ready made templates Yes Yes Yes... everything... You'll hear the older wiser members tell you these things make code train wrecks...

    Let me tell you the things they dont!...

    "What is" and "what should be" are 2 very different things!.. and as you know just a part of every day life.. and that they dont often meet.. so dont get to hung up on the little things...

    Ive spent the last 2 weeks looking around PHP stuff... and to find a tutorial that wasnt dated 2004 or 2006 was 1 in a 100.. about 70% were dead links and about 50% dead sites... You want a train wreck, I'll show you a god damn train wreck... Its called WWW.!.... and a new generation are leaving by the millions because of it!.... and I cant blame them....

    The "Browser" is dying!.. It is the record player being replaced by the cassette tape.. why that reference...

    The "BoomBox" or "Ghetto Blaster" - becomes the Tablet
    The "Walkman" - becomes the iPhone

    Making the technology battery powered and portable.... Bye bye record player..
    A slower death but none the same....

    I see it like the Steam Engine.. once a shiny new technology that changed the whole world.. Where is it now?.. Its had a few upgrades and became the diesel locomotive.. still in use for the industrial heavy lifting and little else...

    It wont be long before we see "mywebsitesname.com" becomes "abc123xyz-2a.com".. and it just becomes a digital pathway no humans ever see...

    If you take away 1 thing please let it be this!!!... For every move you make.. Be thinking 10yrs into the future.. NOT 10ys into the past!...

    Dont worry about us old farts sitting on the pouch talking about "the old days"... Listen, be respectful, but above all.. remember, it is about to be YOUR TIME!... We had our's... and it was more wonderful then we ever dreamed.... Wishing you the same .....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    517
    You're better off using wet clay and a stylus to sketch out your page design than to use Photoshop for same. Use Photoshop (if and only if you already have it -- don't go out and pay the insane price) to create and manipulate images. The learning curve on Photoshop and Dreamweaver is steeper than just learning the code languages you need.

    I will slightly disagree with Code-tard's comments in this regard: There will always be a need for websites ... well at least for the foreseeable future. Even many mobile apps are written in HTML/CSS/etc. If they interact with a server some sort of scripting language is involved to send data back and forth. But while "There's an app for that" seems to apply to everything, it really doesn't. Apps tend to be very specialized critters while a website can be very generalized. Hence why all tablets and "smart" phones come with a web browser. Reports of the death of the browser are a bit premature...

    You don't have to know something "perfectly" before moving on to something else. Learn some basics, learn how HTML/CSS/Javascript can interact with each other. When you don't know something that you want to apply, look it up, learn it, use it and keep it in your knowledge base.

    Then again, I'm also an old fart.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,043
    ... continued

    Now if you REALLY want you can then enhance the page further with JavaScript, but as a rule of thumb if you "need" JavaScript to make a page, you probably have no business building websites. There's what's called the "unwritten rule of JavaScript", which is "If you can't make a page that works without JavaScript first, you likely have no business adding scripting to it!"

    The process I just outlined is called "progressive enhancement", and it means your page can 'gracefully degrade' when (NOT IF) certain fancy bits become unavailable, are irrelevant to the target device, are inaccessible to the user or are intentionally blocked.

    When it comes time to add JS, keep in mind that the majority of what people bloat out websites with using JS falls into three categories:

    1) CSS' job

    2) Stuff that should have been handled server-side and never sent to the client that way in the first place.

    3) Crap that has no business on websites in the first place!

    ... and this has gotten worse since people started vomiting up pages using 'frameworks' like jQuery. By itself jQuery uncompressed is larger than I'd allow an entire page's template; HTML+CSS+SCRIPTS+IMAGES, uncompressed, not counting content or social plugins, to reach. Lemme say that again, this one JS framework is LARGER than I'd make an entire page templates HTML + CSS + SCRIPTS + IMAGES, on the LARGEST conceivable website.

    MOST of it's codebase is redundant to CSS, much of it is garbage that has no business on websites in the first place, and if you take those away what's left shouldn't take more than 8k to implement. It's a train wreck laundry list of how not to use JavaScript on a website, and developers are dumber for it even existing.

    ... and to be frank that sums up most "frameworks" be they HTML, CSS, JS or PHP. They are a crutch for the mentally crippled at best, a blight upon the Internet making websites less useful to visitors at worst that to be frank, makes me think a few people in the industry need to be lined up against a wall for a Stalinesque purge.

    YUI, Bootcrap, Blueprint, jQuery, LESS, SASS, OOCSS, Mootools, Prototype, Angular -- halfwit dimwit re-re nonsense that I cannot fathom how anyone is DUMB ENOUGH to see merit in.

    Though to be brutally frank, I think the same thing about HTML 5... aka "the new transitional" which seems to have been carefully crafted to set coding practices back to the worst of the late 1990's.

    ---------------------------------

    In any case, you say you know HTML and CSS? GOOD. That's the basics, and other than finding a way to glue together like parts -- like PHP, ASP, SHTML, PERL, whatever -- that should mean your skill-set is complete. Do NOT fall for the scam artist bull**** that is dicking around drawing goofy pictures in a paint program. It has NOTHING to do with sane, accessible design and development.

    Simple fact is, people visit websites for the CONTENT, NOT the goofy graphics or "gee ain't it neat" scripted bull people smear all over their websites carpets with because they forgot to take their boots off after spending the day shoveling manure.

    It's actually why the best web design is one you don't actually notice visiting a site. People visit websites for the content, if they notice the crap around the content, you've probably done something wrong!
    Java is to JavaScript as Ham is to Hamburger.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by deathshadow View Post
    ... continued

    Now if you REALLY want you can then enhance the page further with JavaScript, but as a rule of thumb if you "need" JavaScript to make a page, you probably have no business building websites. There's what's called the "unwritten rule of JavaScript", which is "If you can't make a page that works without JavaScript first, you likely have no business adding scripting to it!"

    The process I just outlined is called "progressive enhancement", and it means your page can 'gracefully degrade' when (NOT IF) certain fancy bits become unavailable, are irrelevant to the target device, are inaccessible to the user or are intentionally blocked.

    When it comes time to add JS, keep in mind that the majority of what people bloat out websites with using JS falls into three categories:

    1) CSS' job

    2) Stuff that should have been handled server-side and never sent to the client that way in the first place.

    3) Crap that has no business on websites in the first place!

    ... and this has gotten worse since people started vomiting up pages using 'frameworks' like jQuery. By itself jQuery uncompressed is larger than I'd allow an entire page's template; HTML+CSS+SCRIPTS+IMAGES, uncompressed, not counting content or social plugins, to reach. Lemme say that again, this one JS framework is LARGER than I'd make an entire page templates HTML + CSS + SCRIPTS + IMAGES, on the LARGEST conceivable website.

    MOST of it's codebase is redundant to CSS, much of it is garbage that has no business on websites in the first place, and if you take those away what's left shouldn't take more than 8k to implement. It's a train wreck laundry list of how not to use JavaScript on a website, and developers are dumber for it even existing.

    ... and to be frank that sums up most "frameworks" be they HTML, CSS, JS or PHP. They are a crutch for the mentally crippled at best, a blight upon the Internet making websites less useful to visitors at worst that to be frank, makes me think a few people in the industry need to be lined up against a wall for a Stalinesque purge.

    YUI, Bootcrap, Blueprint, jQuery, LESS, SASS, OOCSS, Mootools, Prototype, Angular -- halfwit dimwit re-re nonsense that I cannot fathom how anyone is DUMB ENOUGH to see merit in.

    Though to be brutally frank, I think the same thing about HTML 5... aka "the new transitional" which seems to have been carefully crafted to set coding practices back to the worst of the late 1990's.

    ---------------------------------

    In any case, you say you know HTML and CSS? GOOD. That's the basics, and other than finding a way to glue together like parts -- like PHP, ASP, SHTML, PERL, whatever -- that should mean your skill-set is complete. Do NOT fall for the scam artist bull**** that is dicking around drawing goofy pictures in a paint program. It has NOTHING to do with sane, accessible design and development.

    Simple fact is, people visit websites for the CONTENT, NOT the goofy graphics or "gee ain't it neat" scripted bull people smear all over their websites carpets with because they forgot to take their boots off after spending the day shoveling manure.

    It's actually why the best web design is one you don't actually notice visiting a site. People visit websites for the content, if they notice the crap around the content, you've probably done something wrong!
    OMG I LOVE YOU. Thank you SO much man!! i'll keep all of that in mind.
    So first off im gonna take the best out of css and html then i'll learn javascript, and after javascript i'll give these programs a try (just to have my own point of view about them) and then i'll go for php. thanks again man you really helped me out

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