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Thread: Age Appropriate Reviews

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Age Appropriate Reviews

    I have been developing website and web applications for over 10 years. I have quite a bit of experience in the working field as a professional. I do not agree with "newbie's" or younger persons critiquing websites. Immature users of this forum tend to post immature responses. If you feel that you are qualified to offer an educated and professional response to a web design besides "it sucks", then please offer your words of wisdom. Otherwise, keep your obnoxious comments to yourselves.

    For all those who want to have their site reviewed please visit the W3C (http://www.w3c.org) website and VALIDATE your code.
    Last edited by crh3675; 04-29-2004 at 02:31 PM.
    Bittersweet web development.

  2. #2
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    And in your professional opinion what is a good description of this piece of code:
    Code:
    <div align="left"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#333333">&nbsp;<a href="crystal_cruises.htm">Details</a></font><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="0.5px" color="#333333"> 
                                              <b>&#187;</b></font> </div>
    
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    Vladdy

    Working web site is not the one that looks the same in a few graphical browsers, but the one that adequately delivers its content to any device accessing it.

  3. #3
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    Re: Age Appropriate Reviews

    Originally posted by crh3675
    I do not agree with "newbie's" or younger persons critiquing websites.
    I somewhat agree with the newbies part, but I do not agree that youngin's should not critique sites. Who says you have to be of a certain age to know a thing or two about web design?
    -Dan
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    That is poorly written invalid code for so many reasons. All of which can be found on the web. I have learned through trial and error and lifetime experience and so can these terrible coders.

    When people come to this section and ask "How's my website?", they don't realize that we as programmers are looking at the code and not the colors.

    Have you ever seen a post that asks "How does my code look?" No, because that is not what they are expecting to get a response about. I think we should close this section of the forum because not a single decently coded website has ever passed through here.
    Bittersweet web development.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by crh3675
    I think we should close this section of the forum because not a single decently coded website has ever passed through here.
    I don't think that's a very good reason to close a forum. The point of these forums is to help web developers. If every site that came through here was perfectly valid and looked extremely attractive, then this forum wouldn't really be serving it's purpose, which is to comment on how people can imporve their sites. That is why most people get their site reviewed in the first place, to get suggestions or ideas on what they can do to make it better. Just my 2,
    -Dan
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    Who says you have to be of a certain age to know a thing or two about web design?
    It's not necessarily the age that I talked about if you read my post, it's the maturity level of the person posting

    The point of these forums is to help web developers
    I help many developers with code snippets and ideas of how to make things work. The people posting in this section only want an ego-boost or re-assurance that ther site "is cool". I have spent mass amounts of time reading and working hard to get to where I am today with my skills. If these "web designers" want help, ask for it before you mangle a website. In other words, "learn your trade before trying to apply it." That's what many of us went to college for.

    This forum needs a section called "Newbies"
    Bittersweet web development.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by crh3675
    I think we should close this section of the forum because not a single decently coded website has ever passed through here.
    I'm about ready to post my latest work for critique. Not to be a pompous ass, but you'll see a "decently coded website" when that's up for review.

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    That would be a refresher!
    Bittersweet web development.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by crh3675
    That is poorly written invalid code for so many reasons. All of which can be found on the web. <snip />
    So summing it up.... it sucks....
    Vladdy

    Working web site is not the one that looks the same in a few graphical browsers, but the one that adequately delivers its content to any device accessing it.

  10. #10
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    Maybe I just get tired of helping those that need more than just "a little help". I offer coding help and then the person responds back asking "so what does that mean and how do I use it". I hate having to explain what I believe is "boiler-plate" for web development.
    Bittersweet web development.

  11. #11
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    Hello All.

    I think you should class the validity of a review of a website based on the reviewers maturity levels. A review from anybody is a worthwhile review as someone offering their opinion can always be helpful.

    I dont think that just because people may not understand the art of coding and technical validity, that they will not put forward a true opinion.

    I.e: If i was designing a site and a 10year old told me it looks ugly then i would consider this comment just as much as a 34year old proffessional web developer.

    I do agree the web deservers a better view on coding and making sites accessible and valid, but the web is slowly moving in this direction. Personally i think all the css fluent webblogs are guiding it there.

    David
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by crh3675
    I think we should close this section of the forum because not a single decently coded website has ever passed through here.
    I'd like to think mine was decent to say the least, and Vladdy's was entirely solid coding.

    On a side note, I think that we should have a sticky saying don't ask for a review if your code isn't valid.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by samij586
    On a side note, I think that we should have a sticky saying don't ask for a review if your code isn't valid.
    But why? Surely by reviewing their site and pointing them in the direction is much better than just telling them to come back when they have learnt how to code properly.
    Giving them helpful comments and suggestions is much better than scaring them about the technical side of web development. They have to be encouraged to design and code properly, rather than bullied into fitting the higher standard.

    I know when i first started it was about how it looked. Enocuraging comments about my designs encouraged me to progress wherei learnt more about validity and accessibility.
    More of a journal than a blog.

    Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by davidbrent
    Hello All.

    I think you should class the validity of a review of a website based on the reviewers maturity levels. A review from anybody is a worthwhile review as someone offering their opinion can always be helpful.

    I dont think that just because people may not understand the art of coding and technical validity, that they will not put forward a true opinion.

    I.e: If i was designing a site and a 10year old told me it looks ugly then i would consider this comment just as much as a 34year old proffessional web developer.

    I do agree the web deservers a better view on coding and making sites accessible and valid, but the web is slowly moving in this direction. Personally i think all the css fluent webblogs are guiding it there.

    David
    sadly opinions are not taken seriously by younger people even if they know what they are talking about by most people. Fred and I were having a conversation, a long while ago, and I asked him how old he was, and found out he was as old as me, 16. We aggreed that many of the web "professionals" are not professional in the least bit, examples:
    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos...//www.cnn.com/
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...e%29&verbose=1
    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos...msnbc.msn.com/
    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos.../main100.shtml
    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos...bcnews.go.com/
    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos...ews.bbc.co.uk/
    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos...a.net/HomePage
    this is what the validator thinks of some of the major news sources (aljazeera was thrown in to be funny). Tell the web developers there they are not professional and they would have a cow, after all they are getting a hefty pay check and 'know' what they are doing. But they sure do not act like it with markup like that. Count how many actually bothered to use a doc type. Now if someone that is working on colledge credits, someone not even old enough to drink yet, tells them they are unprofessional, they would piss and moan and ignore the advice.

  15. #15
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    I feel like an old fart in this forum. I am 29. I have been doing web development for many years. Imagine being there from pretty much the start of the web and having to go back and "fix" all of your code. I used to code in HTML 2.0 and 3.2 for Netscape 2 and 3.
    There was no such thing as "valid" code or the right way. IE came out with version 4 which had more "options" as they were called. There was no need for compliance. Making the transition from HTML 2 through XHTML 1.1 is a big leap for many developers (believe it or not).

    So, when all of you teenages who are in high school are developing your websites in your spare time, understand that developers like myself (married, full-time, with family) don't have the extensive amount of time to always develop in compliance. I spend most of my time developing many. many projects. Some of which are meant to function strictly in IE as web applications. Many of our clients want their websites viewable in Netscape 4.x. So, with all of that said, I cannot always develop in compliance with the W3C recommendation.

    So, I take back what I said about "validate your code" in the first post because in the grand scale of things, our clients create the market for which we work in. We adapt to their needs.

    How would you explain to a client, "Sorry, we can't develop your website to work in Netscape 4.x because we develop in XHTML 1.0 Transitional and the code will not validate"
    Bittersweet web development.

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